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04-10-2007, 05:01 PM   #1
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First DSLR, Which one will do?

K110, K100, K10 ? I am finally ready to update my film Pentax SF1 and would like to be able to create digital photos at least as good as the SF1 did.
I have looked at samples and am familiar with the specs on the new cameras.
I am fairly certain the K10 will exceed my expectations but would like some feed back from any of these new cameras (as they compare to 35mm film).

I guess I am just cheap, and if the 6mp camera will do the job then I will buy it. If not, then I will save some more.

Thanks

04-10-2007, 05:25 PM   #2
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I went from a SF7 to a DS and found that it gives me what I need. However I'm saving up for the K10D, as it will give me options.

I do some people here and personally who have the K100D and seem to be very happy. If you can afford the K100 then go for it or do as I and save for the K10.

Here in OZ the K100D is dropping in price each month, but not the K10D.
04-10-2007, 05:46 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by seriousam Quote
K110, K100, K10 ? I am finally ready to update my film Pentax SF1 and would like to be able to create digital photos at least as good as the SF1 did. I have looked at samples and am familiar with the specs on the new cameras. I am fairly certain the K10 will exceed my expectations but would like some feed back from any of these new cameras (as they compare to 35mm film).

I guess I am just cheap, and if the 6mp camera will do the job then I will buy it. If not, then I will save some more.
Wanting to save money does not make you "cheap" unless you're buying the camera for someone else (and perhaps not even then). Buying for yourself, you are being thrifty, or more than that, you're being smart. That said, a few points. By the way, I've owned and used both the K100D and the K10D.

1. In my opinion, there's no reason to consider the K110D except for price. The only differences between the K100D and K110D are (a) the difference in price and (b) shake reduction. The difference in price is small, shake reduction is not. I have often been in the position where an extra $50 in the price of something was a deal-breaker, so if you have to get the K110D, don't feel bad. It's (almost) everything the K100D is. Otherwise, your choice is, K100D or K10D?

2. The K100D is an excellent camera - not just for first-time DSLR owners but for anybody. You can - generally speaking - take pictures with the K100D that are every bit as good as those you'll take with the K10D.

3. The K10D, in my judgment, is a good choice for photographers who take a LOT of photos, want fast access to the controls on the outside of the camera, and who may find themselves occasionally shooting in humidity or weather conditions where the K10D's weather sealing makes a difference. I moved from the K100D to the K10D in part because I wanted the better continuous-shooting capability of the K10D; this is one of the K100D's few weak points.

4. You are right, the difference between 6MP and 10MP should probably not be a big consideration for you.

5. Finally - and this really is the big deal - try to understand (if you're not already well aware of this) that there is a very great likelihood that, after you buy the camera, you will want to spend more money on lenses and other accessories. I'm inclined to think that, for the average enthusiast, the cost of the camera represents about HALF of the cost you're getting yourself into. You may be an exception to this rule. You might be one of those rare people with financial self-control. Or you might be happy with the 18-55mm kit lens and be able to avoid the temptation to rush out and buy a wide angle, a telephoto zoom, a 50mm prime, etc. If you are such a person, God bless you. Pray for the rest of us, please. But otherwise, if you budget $500 for the camera, reckon on spending or at least WANTING to spend another $300-$500 for lenses in the near future.

6. I said that was my final point, but let me add one more thing. You don't HAVE to buy the camera with the kit lens. Doing so is not a bad idea. The 18-55mm lens that Pentax provides is a perfectly decent lens. I've seen some wonderful pictures taken with it. But if you're doing research, you might want to consider buying the body only, at least if you can save yourself $100 or so. You could put that money towards an alternative basic lens, like the Pentax 50mm prime (about $225), or the Sigma 28-70 or Tamron 28-70mm f/2.8 lenses, or a Tamron 18-200mm lens or something like that.

Hope this helps. You're likely to get a lot of advice here... ;-)

Will
04-10-2007, 09:29 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by seriousam Quote
if the 6mp camera will do the job then I will buy it. If not, then I will save some more.

Thanks
mcleod151 is selling his https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/photographers-marketplace/5602-pentax-k10...html#post45949

04-10-2007, 10:19 PM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
You don't HAVE to buy the camera with the kit lens. Doing so is not a bad idea. The 18-55mm lens that Pentax provides is a perfectly decent lens. I've seen some wonderful pictures taken with it. But if you're doing research, you might want to consider buying the body only, at least if you can save yourself $100 or so. You could put that money towards an alternative basic lens, like the Pentax 50mm prime (about $225), or the Sigma 28-70 or Tamron 28-70mm f/2.8 lenses, or a Tamron 18-200mm lens or something like that.
I bought just the body to save a few bucks, but ended up buying the kit lens anyway later used, because it is really the only wide-angle option you have if you don't have at least several hundred dollars to spend. It's my wide angle stop gap lens until I can put together the money for a DA 21.

As for which body to buy, the K100D gives you about $500 to put toward the inevitable LBA , but I must admit I have missed quite a few shots waiting for the camera to write raw files to the SD card. Something to consider.
04-11-2007, 06:35 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Finn Quote
I must admit I have missed quite a few shots waiting for the camera to write raw files to the SD card. Something to consider.
Not to scare the original poster too much, as you can get three shoots off quickly before the buffer fills with a K100D. Then you have to wait about 3-5 seconds.

Doesn't affect me much as I don't have to blitz off shots, but in some venues that's needed.
04-11-2007, 07:45 AM   #7
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Both the K100 and K10 are great...
if money was a consern, A K100 with a great lens is a better deal then a K10 with a cheap kit lens. (this is only if you plan to buy only one lens, of course)
My wife owns the K100 and I have the K10, and aside from some advanced features, the K100 is every bit as capable of delievering a great print as the K10.
when you want to crop, this is where the K100 and the K10 separate... the K10 is much better for this.

In high ISO comparisons.... her K100 blows my K10 away at ISO 1600 as far as low digital noise is conserned.

Her K100 doesn't have a grip avalible, something to think about if you are into that kind of accessary.
The K100 doesn't have wireless flash capability like the K10
The K100 is much more user friendly.... lots of auto this, auto that, which produce great shots with the turn of the dial
K10 takes more thought to get the same results.
I would still buy my K10 today as I love the advanced features, where my wife would not ever need them as she is happy just taking photos.
hope some of this helps

cheers and good luck

randy
04-11-2007, 08:03 AM   #8
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It's all been said

Nothing to add. Just wanted to say that Will covered all the points, and I've never read a better summery.

04-11-2007, 08:40 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by slipchuck Quote
In high ISO comparisons.... her K100 blows my K10 away at ISO 1600 as far as low digital noise is conserned.
I have to confess that I don't really understand the claim that the K10D is dramatically noisier than the K100D at higher sensitivity levels. Here is a picture of volleyball players warming up before a game. Here is a picture of girls in a basketball game. Both were taken at iso 1600. If you can tell at a glance which one was taken by the K10D and which by the K100D - without looking carefully and without looking at any of the metadata - well, you have a better eye than I do. Let me note that there are indeed differences between the photos besides which camera they were taken with. They were also not taken with the same lens, or in the same place. They WERE taken at the same aperture, roughly the same focal length, and the same ISO.

I'm not saying that the K10D is NOT a bit noisy at ISO 1600. I think I see it in some shots. But it was the one thing I was really worried about when I bought the K10D and it just hasn't turned out to be as bad as I feared. At 1600, the K10D is still far less noisy than my old Canon PowerShot S3 IS was at 800.

Will
04-11-2007, 09:04 AM   #10
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a nickles worth...

First you simply must correct some of your thinking: you made the images (good or bad) not the camera regardless of it's medium (film or digital).

Except for the extra digital controls, photographs are made with some combination of film/sensor speed, aperture and shutter duration. Your review of specifications should have made that very clear: you make film images exactly like you make digital images. With digital you don't need to worry about pulling out too much leader from the film can or getting it properly fed into the take-up sprocket.

6MP dSLRs are yesterdays technology for the most part. We are still very early in the 10MP dSLR cycle--not bleeding edge perhaps, but still cutting edge. Generally the average 35mm film image is equivalent to about 8MP digital.

Feedback, as you desire "from the cameras" would be photos. Unfortunately you cannot judge web images with much accuracy as to their origin in a 6 or 8 or 10 or 12MP camera. You must settle for human feedback in this regard.

Mine would be that it required some effort to match early 6MP digital image quality(*istD) to 35mm film image quality; i.e. one needed significant practice. On the other hand current 6MP cameras (K110d,K100d) are easily able to match film, even in novice user hands. 8MP and 10MP dSLRs match film quality to a degree which allows the true user ability to be significant and noticeable/notable.

You should get something that anticipates future personal development; something beyond your abilities.
04-11-2007, 10:00 AM   #11
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Thanks for the Feedback

That answers my questions from many angles.

I don't change cameras that often. My last one is 20years old. So I think I will go with the K10 once I can afford it. Although it seems all of them will meet my requirement of matching 35mm film.

I have seen clearance of K110/kit for $550 (Canadian). Less than half of current K10 price. So this still is not an easy decision.

I have a couple of lenses from my SF1 35-105, 70-210 but I will try to get the kit with the 18-55 for the wide angle capability, unless some one has a better recommendation for third party lens.
04-11-2007, 10:53 AM   #12
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If you are looking to not want to change in the very near future I would get the K10. There will be a replacement for it soon enough, but as John said, it is at least current technology and will keep you quite content for some time.

I have shot most of the Pentax DSLR line up, some of them extensively. I own an *istD and a K10D, and I purchased a K100D for my father that I had in my possesion for a couple weeks. I actually prefered my *istD to the much newer K100 in many ways. The K100 produced far better images straight out of the camera, but the ist gave much more control, which I prefer.

The K10 gives even more control to the user than the *istD did. Much better white balance control, more exposure modes, more control over the controls even. I love the K100, as does my dad. I like the creative control the K10 offers.
04-11-2007, 01:35 PM   #13
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I have the K110D and am quite happy with it. As my signature notes I do not feel the need for the "shake reduction". Frankly I do not like the idea of my image plane moving around on its own. If anything moves I want it to be me. I'm sure the SR is quite robust but I also worry that it might not re-home.

Call me old-school but thousands of photographers got along just fine without SR up until just the last few years. Why is it a must-have now? I understand it lets you hand-hold with slower shutter speeds and there are certainly times when that would be useful but I would rather compensate in other ways, say a tripod, or for those looooong lenses, SR in the lens...

Also, as several others have noted. What you save on the body can be spent on lenses!

The K10 is undoubtedly a superior camera and if you want/need/require the 10mp and the other options or controls it provides by all means go for it. However if you want to save a little or a lot and still get a perfectly good camera, consider the K1xxs. When comparing the K100D and the K110D the only diff is the SR and if you believe you can do without it you could probably get one dirt cheap (thanks to everyone pooh-poohing it because it lacks the SR).


Mike

Last edited by MRRiley; 04-11-2007 at 01:47 PM.
04-11-2007, 02:06 PM   #14
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I have a DS, and I have not even come close to reaching the limits of this camera.
I'm happy with 6M, as I have a some nice 12x18" prints on the wall.

The 10D is appealing to me for 2 main reasons :
1) Weather Seal
2) Shake Reduction.

However, for the time being, my camera savings funds are going into lenses. I expect when I've reached the limit with my DS, the 10D (or whatever) will be a whole lot cheaper, and I'll have some nice lenses to go with it.

YMMV
04-11-2007, 02:14 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by MRRiley Quote
I have the K110D and am quite happy with it. As my signature notes I do not feel the need for the "shake reduction". Frankly I do not like the idea of my image plane moving around on its own. If anything moves I want it to be me. I'm sure the SR is quite robust but I also worry that it might not re-home.


Mike,

Have you ever heard of the image plane failing to re-home? I haven't.

I'm also curious: ARE there any lenses for the Pentax mount that have IS built in? I don't think I've seen any.

No insult meant to the K110D here or to any of the other non-SR Pentax digital SLRs. The price difference is NOT insignificant - over $100 right now on Adorama if I read the listings correctly.

Will
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