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04-11-2009, 12:47 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I can't believe how wrong Gary is again... seems to be happening a lot lately. Could be he is back on the sauce! hehe
Goodness!

What is up with that?

I can agree with the film thing; that is how I learned.

Just a matter of getting it processed which seems to be shrinking now a days.

04-12-2009, 07:37 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by alehel Quote
A good film scanner isn't going to be much cheaper than a dslr and there will be costs of developing. Much easier to learn photography by using a dslr as there you can do as much as you want without the additional costs.

I would expect you'd be able to find a K100D or K100D super body only for a reasonable price.
The father already has a scanner, so on that accord there would not be any output financially. (sure that is misspelled.)
04-12-2009, 07:45 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
.
The cost of film / development would be prohibitive to a 21 year old, and if he is artistic, he gets immediate feedback on his experiments with digital...

A used K100d, reg or super is probably $200 -250... you cant go wrong with that as a great gift IMHO.
I am currently in my late 20's (at least for another few months :O ) and I have to admit i stopped shooting for awhile when I was struggling to pay bills BECAUSE I was shooting film/slide film. I went on vacation to FL and when I came back with 5 rolls of slide film after processing and printing I'd spent over $100 and the results were not that great. (first time shooting on a sunny beach)

Has your son taken a basic photo class? He would have learned about the concept of apertures and shutter speed there. I have always wanted to do one of those workshops on location, and if it was with one of my parents, it would be a dream come true. It would be ideal to set it up for a few months after his birthday and if he wants to get a digital Pentax he can purchase it himself. If he does then you can surprise him with a "new" lens.. (either new or second hand new) This way he can put effort and money into his own equipment and you are developing a new way to bond with your adult son...

hope this helps! Do you want to "adopt" a photo girl?! LOL
04-12-2009, 07:52 AM   #19
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Hey my husband just made a good suggestion what about the K2000D?

04-12-2009, 07:55 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
I can't believe how wrong Gary is again... seems to be happening a lot lately. Could be he is back on the sauce! hehe
QuoteOriginally posted by res3567 Quote
Goodness!

What is up with that?

I can agree with the film thing; that is how I learned.

Just a matter of getting it processed which seems to be shrinking now a days.
Sorry, I was drunk as a skunk when I typed that... pot / kettle is my only explanation... LBA for me is Large Bottle Addiction... My apologies to Damn Brit, as I am sure he is coping as best he can...

Now back to reality... Not only is there a monetary cost to film that might be prohibitive to some... there is a time factor in the processing. And I am not sure how film is today, but I used to not have any EXIF data attached to my prints when I got them back from Payless Drugs... so a week later I would get back some prints, and unless I had taken copious notes... I had know idea exactly what settings I had used to get a given look.

With my K100d I could take pic after pic with slight changes and see immediately what effect that was having... talk about speeding the learning process.
And if one happens to be artistically inclined, the immediate feedback as you are attempting an artistic representation of a scene would be invaluable IMHO...

But again, I am still a bit buzzed from last nights party and this mornings coffee is just confusing me...
04-12-2009, 08:44 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
Sorry, I was drunk as a skunk when I typed that... pot / kettle is my only explanation... LBA for me is Large Bottle Addiction... My apologies to Damn Brit, as I am sure he is coping as best he can...

Now back to reality... Not only is there a monetary cost to film that might be prohibitive to some... there is a time factor in the processing. And I am not sure how film is today, but I used to not have any EXIF data attached to my prints when I got them back from Payless Drugs... so a week later I would get back some prints, and unless I had taken copious notes... I had know idea exactly what settings I had used to get a given look.

With my K100d I could take pic after pic with slight changes and see immediately what effect that was having... talk about speeding the learning process.
And if one happens to be artistically inclined, the immediate feedback as you are attempting an artistic representation of a scene would be invaluable IMHO...

But again, I am still a bit buzzed from last nights party and this mornings coffee is just confusing me...
That is what I hated the most about film. More than once I had to take notes on each shot to compare the settings. The cost and the wait for processing was also a pain.

But it really made me appreciate digital that much more! It was like going through the school of hard knox.
04-12-2009, 11:16 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
Hey my husband just made a good suggestion what about the K2000D?
The K200D introduced at the same time as the K20D, or the newest K2000/K-m? I have to ask, because a typo on that model can go either way...

Personally I'd throw the K200D in the pot, as it can be found for reasonable prices if you look hard and don't require it to be brand new, but I assumed it was already omitted from the OP's list for some reason. I haven't tried pricing the older models on the list, so maybe even a used K200D falls outside the budget.

Last edited by Quension; 04-12-2009 at 11:23 AM.
04-12-2009, 06:27 PM   #23
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QuoteQuote:
I can't believe how wrong Gary is again... seems to be happening a lot lately. Could be he is back on the sauce! hehe

I am against the leaving him with just the film camera... I learned more about exposure / composition in a month with the K100d than I did in all the time with the K1000 / ME back in the day... I just could not afford to learn as much as I would have liked on my own at the time.
The cost of film / development would be prohibitive to a 21 year old, and if he is artistic, he gets immediate feedback on his experiments with digital...

A used K100d, reg or super is probably $200 -250... you cant go wrong with that as a great gift IMHO.
A agree with IGilligan. I'm pretty sure I would give up photography if I had to do film again.

04-12-2009, 08:24 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quension Quote
The K200D introduced at the same time as the K20D, or the newest K2000/K-m? I have to ask, because a typo on that model can go either way...

Personally I'd throw the K200D in the pot, as it can be found for reasonable prices if you look hard and don't require it to be brand new, but I assumed it was already omitted from the OP's list for some reason. I haven't tried pricing the older models on the list, so maybe even a used K200D falls outside the budget.

I was refering to the k2000
04-13-2009, 02:33 PM   #25
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Just get a book out from the library on basic photography, get a K1000, a 50mm f/1.7 and a load of film. And then you're good to go.
04-13-2009, 11:21 PM   #26
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K2000

QuoteOriginally posted by madisonphotogrl Quote
I was refering to the k2000
If you're looking to buy a new camera body and kit lens that's a pretty good choice IMHO.

Otherwise like others have mentioned, a K10D.

Personally being in that similar age group as your son, I can say I would not have the patience to work with film...

It's just a totally different mentality. Although I can't over generalize as he is his own individual, but I think our generation may share the same level of patience for working with older technology, or lack of patience I should say.

I have learned a lot about photography through the use of a DSLR. I can't say I'd have the patience to understand it if I had go use film. Although I do appreciate the film platform.

I think if I had to make an analogy, it would be like saying "you should teach him how to use a typewriter before using a computer." Why make things more difficult when you have more convenient technology that you essentially can gain the same results?

If he is artistic and becomes enthusiastic about photography he may end up experimenting with film.

My 2 cents.
04-14-2009, 01:46 AM   #27
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Wow, sorry, I've been away for a few days. I didn't expect so much interest & assistance.

Yep! We've a book from the library & a course is starting at our local technical college in May. I might enrol myself.

There's a new K200D new at a local shop for $A688. A brilliant price. I'm tempted to buy it & give him mine.

He is artistic; he did some paintings at school (one of Bob Marley surrounded by dope leaves but the backgrpound was painted & he & the leaves were left as white canvas) It went over like a bucket of manure in a marshmallow pie with the teachers but they did privately say it could be exhibited in the local gallery as long as the school wasn't identified.

I tend to agree that it's so easy to learn with digital.

Thanks for all the comments.
04-14-2009, 10:24 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by jibbonpoint Quote
Wow, sorry, I've been away for a few days. I didn't expect so much interest & assistance.

Yep! We've a book from the library & a course is starting at our local technical college in May. I might enrol myself.

There's a new K200D new at a local shop for $A688. A brilliant price. I'm tempted to buy it & give him mine.

He is artistic; he did some paintings at school (one of Bob Marley surrounded by dope leaves but the backgrpound was painted & he & the leaves were left as white canvas) It went over like a bucket of manure in a marshmallow pie with the teachers but they did privately say it could be exhibited in the local gallery as long as the school wasn't identified.

I tend to agree that it's so easy to learn with digital.

Thanks for all the comments.
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04-15-2009, 03:50 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
The voice of experience says, "Be forewarned! If you do this you're signing away exclusive rights to your lenses." ;~)
I just want to emphasize that I was kidding here: it's a great gift idea. And absolutely no question make it digital: the advantages in terms of learning are simply overwhelming.
04-15-2009, 04:23 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by dadipentak Quote
I just want to emphasize that I was kidding here.
Oh! I do understand dadipentac (great name by the way).

My son was actually adopted & comes from Thailand. The great difference is that I have no talent artistically at all;(I can well appreciate & admire good art, though)

I'm a camera enthusiast, an engineering technologist & he is gifted artistically. (He's no slouch in other depts but you get what I mean).

The advantage is that I know that he won't follow in my footsteps so I can try & guide him in where I observe where he should perhaps go. It's been good fun along the way.

And really, if you can't put out for your kids, what's the point?
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