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04-16-2009, 07:53 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
Macro? Do you mean the mode dial was set to "Macro picture mode" (it has a flower icon on the mode dial)?

Don't use that for these kind of shots. I have no idea exactly what that picture mode does as it's not detailed in the operating manual, but it is not needed for macro shots (you can take those in Av or M mode). One thing I can think of is that the macro picture mode might set metering to spot metering, that would explain the overexposure. I'll try that at home.

Anyways, I'd suggest to use Av mode (or M if you're comfortable with it) for these kind of shots. And congratz for buying it, I think it's a great little camera for us amateur hobby photographers
Yeah I used the Macro mode on the dial. I guess I used it because I am used to using the macro mode on the point and shoot cameras.

I think i just put it on ISO 1600 just to try it out and see what would happen. Its kinda weird because Im confused how it would work since Im thinking of it in a Film SLR sense.

04-16-2009, 08:21 AM   #17
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The high ISO setting is forcing the shutter speed as high as possible. It could be that the macro mode limits the shutter's max speed and the min aperture and it is still overexposing at the limits. ISO1600 should only be used in very low light conditions. Does the camera has an auto ISO mode? If not, set it to a lower value like 200 and try again.
Higher ISO will also introduce some noise.

Thanks,
04-16-2009, 07:06 PM   #18
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Macro mode on my K200D enables the flash (on auto), so it might have run into the max sync speed for the shutter.
04-16-2009, 10:27 PM   #19
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Hi Choubacca.

I suspect that your camera may be faulty.

I just got a K20D myself (wich Im relly pleased with, by the way. - I want to be clear on that!), and I have been getting some weird shots that look very(!) similar to yours.
Also Id suggest that you check the EXIF information.

Right click on an image, click "properties" and then click "advanced".
You will then see a list of different values; (heigth, with, resolution, camera make, f-number, exposure time etc. etc.)
I have several shots where the camera has recorded the Exposure Program as "unknown", regardless of wich setting Ive used.

The shutter was open much, much longer than needed, -in fact it was as though the camera would not stop taking the picture.
Also in *some* cases the camera would be unresponsive afterwards. (Only showing remaining frame count on the top display).

I returned it for repairs, but the repairman was not able to replicate the symptoms, (plural). (After having tried extensively).
The shop updated the firmware and I got the camera back today, but unfortunately once I got back home, I discovered that it was still broken.

They considered replacing it when I delivered it for repair (a couple of weeks ago), so I am expecting that they will do so when I take it back tomorrow.







Hope the pictures work :-)
(4 different pictures, 2 faulty and 2 normal).


Best regards,
Karl Trausti from Iceland

04-16-2009, 10:45 PM   #20
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hi Choubacca,

for the overexposed shots, did you use the built in flash? everytime I use over ISO 800 on my K100D, the flash power doesn't go down low enough to prevent overexposure. I haven't tested this extensively but I'm guessing that you used the built in flash.
04-17-2009, 12:03 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by karlbark Quote
Also Id suggest that you check the EXIF information.

Right click on an image, click "properties" and then click "advanced".
You will then see a list of different values; (heigth, with, resolution, camera make, f-number, exposure time etc. etc.)
I have several shots where the camera has recorded the Exposure Program as "unknown", regardless of wich setting Ive used.
If you're referring to what's shown in Windows Explorer, that isn't unusual. It's reading one of the standard EXIF fields, but that field only has a limited range of options that don't match the exact mode of every camera. For some operating modes (such as Sv), the camera can only put "unknown" there.

To examine all the metadata the camera recorded in the image, most of which is in a manufacturer-specific section Windows can't read, I recommend using PhotoME. You can use the Import/Export -> Text option to get a form that can be pasted here, for help interpreting the information.

QuoteQuote:
The shutter was open much, much longer than needed, -in fact it was as though the camera would not stop taking the picture.
Also in *some* cases the camera would be unresponsive afterwards. (Only showing remaining frame count on the top display).
QuoteQuote:

Any chance you had it in the exposure bracketing drive mode?
04-17-2009, 12:04 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quension Quote
Any chance you had it in the exposure bracketing drive mode?
Hi Quension.
No thats not it.
The Exposure Program being recorded as "unknown" was hardly the main problem anyway.

But Ive also had;
- f-number exif-recorded as "0".
- One single RAW file *almost* (but not entirely) desaturated! (Very mysterious, that one)!!!
- camera unwilling to shoot (despite right settings being achieved)
- camera completely unresponsive after OVERexposure (only remaining count flashing in the top display).

At first I thought that I was to blame, having set the camera to settings that were not really "correct" (for want of a better word).
Especially, since the first few of the washed out pictures were taken at the TAv setting. (I thought that perhaps the camera had not been able to change the ISO quickly enough to deal with the somewhat harsh light settings I was shooting under).

But - long story short, I got it back from repairs yesterday,
-Soon experienced similar problems when I tried it at home, though.
-Took it back today and spoke to the supervisor (very nice guy) and hes going to replace the camera on monday. (Unfortunately he didnt have a new camera available when I got there today).

--
I want to make it absolutely clear, that I am very pleased with the camera and also the service from the icelandic Pentax outfit.
Good and personal service!
(I spoke to the repairman reveral times on the phone while he had the camera -and he was even going to loan me his own K10D for a shoot I needed to do).

In fact, I bought a Canon 450D a few months ago at the tax free store at Keflavik airport.
A few days later I meant to buy more lenses for it but discovered that the price difference between stablilized and non-stabilized (IS vs. non-IS) was very, very, very! ;-) significant!
Also, I grew to dislike the Canon more and more after having tried it out for a few days, but since it was bought at a tax free store (i.e. outside Icelandic tax zones), I could not return it! (Even to the same brand store here in Reykjavik)!!!
I was....shall we say...."not happy" with that! But several phonecalls later, (incl. two managers), I did have that confirmed.

So, I was faced with "settling for" a camera that I was unhappy with -after having saved up for it for a looong time. (Im on a rather strict budget).
So I decided to sell it (with some loss to me, obviously). I bought the Pentax K20D the very next day! :-)

As said before, I am truly very happy with the Pentax,
- and Im getting a new one on monday :-) :-)

Best regards,
Karl Trausti from Iceland


-Im including the almost (but not 100%) desaturated b/w image
+ a copy where Ive turned up the saturation by +92 points.
(So you can see that the original is not actually a b/w image)
-Remenber, it was a RAW file. I converted it to jpeg in PS, but left other settings unchanged.




Also another one of the washed out ones.
(Its a radiator).
Ill include the next shot (wich was normal) so you know what youre looking at.





Best regards,
Karl Trausti from Iceland

Last edited by karlbark; 04-17-2009 at 06:49 PM.
04-17-2009, 05:27 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by karlbark Quote
Hi Quension.
- f-number exif-recorded as "0".
That happens if the aperture ring moves off the "A" position.

QuoteQuote:
- camera unwilling to shoot (despite right settings being achieved)
That happens if it can't get a focus lock.

I think it would be useful to see the EXIF for some of those overexposed photos. I'm intrigued by the suggestion that the problem was that use of flash was forcing maximum shutter speed to be 1/180" in Macro, and with ISO 1600, that might well result in overexposure just from the ambient light. Although that of course doesn't explain issues in TAv mode. But how do we know you weren't trying to shoot at, say, 1/60" and f/2.8 in bright sunlight? There camera can't set ISO low enough to avoid overexposure then!

04-17-2009, 07:01 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by karlbark Quote
Hi Quension.
No thats not it.
Ok, it looked too extreme for bracketing anyway, but I figured I'd ask.

QuoteQuote:
Took it back today and spoke to the supervisor (very nice guy) :-) and hes going to replace the camera on monday.
Good, let us know how it turns out!


QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I think it would be useful to see the EXIF for some of those overexposed photos. I'm intrigued by the suggestion that the problem was that use of flash was forcing maximum shutter speed to be 1/180" in Macro, and with ISO 1600, that might well result in overexposure just from the ambient light. Although that of course doesn't explain issues in TAv mode. But how do we know you weren't trying to shoot at, say, 1/60" and f/2.8 in bright sunlight? There camera can't set ISO low enough to avoid overexposure then!
Remember we have two different people in the thread, but yes, I'd like to see full EXIF from both as well.

Just to remind, PhotoME can read most of the Pentax-specific EXIF information and export it in several formats. If you can't easily post an image with EXIF intact, or aren't sure what to look for, feel free to PM me PhotoME's output and I'll filter it down to the relevant bits for the thread.
04-18-2009, 05:16 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
I'm intrigued by the suggestion that the problem was that use of flash was forcing maximum shutter speed to be 1/180" in Macro, and with ISO 1600, that might well result in overexposure just from the ambient light.
I tried to replicate (reproduce?) this overexposure issue: mode dial set to Macro, popped up built-in flash, ISO set to 1600. It is 2pm here, bright sunlight, I took some pics from the balcony. Even though shutter speed was 1/180 due to using flash, the pics are not totally overexposed as in the above posted pics. The camera set aperture to F22, so the pics are overexposed by only 1-2 stops with some burnt-out highlights (sky, white clouds). Attached one pic as example.

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Unless the guys took their pics in much more light (like nuclear flash or something), I suspect those overexposed shots are due to camera malfunction.
04-18-2009, 06:53 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
I tried to replicate (reproduce?) this overexposure issue: mode dial set to Macro, popped up built-in flash, ISO set to 1600. It is 2pm here, bright sunlight, I took some pics from the balcony. Even though shutter speed was 1/180 due to using flash, the pics are not totally overexposed as in the above posted pics. The camera set aperture to F22, so the pics are overexposed by only 1-2 stops with some burnt-out highlights (sky, white clouds). Attached one pic as example.

...

Unless the guys took their pics in much more light (like nuclear flash or something), I suspect those overexposed shots are due to camera malfunction.
I don't know much about the in-camera macro mode (what specific settings) - but the camera build-in flash does not support high-speed sync flash so the max shutter speed it can do in this case is 1/180. If ISO setting is manually adjusted, the camera can only set the aperture to compensate for proper metering, in this case I suspect f22 is maxed out. I suspect that the warning lights are all blinking on the wrong settings while the picture is taken. But if the camera setting "setup" is that you can release the shutter even though the exposure is wrong - you end up with the overexposed picture. And that is not a camera malfunction; another thing to watch out is spot metering when there is a high contrast in subject selection.

I only have the k10D with me, that is why I don't use any of the scene modes myself. Perhaps, I will try it with my k100D (have to find it) to see if I end up with the same result.
04-18-2009, 11:53 AM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by simico Quote
Even though shutter speed was 1/180 due to using flash, the pics are not totally overexposed as in the above posted pics. The camera set aperture to F22
Right, and the original pictures from the person mention macro mode, the aperture was f/8. That's the lethal combo - 1/180 + f/8 + 1600 + bright sunlight = overexposure. But the question is, why were those settings chosen? Without EXIF, it's kind of hard to say. Was ISO on auto? Was the flash actually popped up? What lens was being used? Was the person posting simply remembering incorrectly in saying they were shot in macro mode - maybe it was really Av mode and he chose f/8 himself not realizing it was asking the camera to do the impossible?
04-19-2009, 03:16 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
Was the person posting simply remembering incorrectly in saying they were shot in macro mode - maybe it was really Av mode and he chose f/8 himself not realizing it was asking the camera to do the impossible?
Yep, without EXIF we can only guess... I guess the camera was either set to M (manual) or Av mode, or it was using spot metering (and metered on a dark subject). As my tests showed the camera always tried to set the correct aperture in Macro mode and at F22 it hit the minimum aperture limit. So I think there's no way it would set aperture to F8 with 1/180 shutter and 1600 ISO in bright sunshine - the cam was either in other mode (M or Av) or metering was set to spot or cam was malfunctioning. It's hard to tell which was the case without EXIF info.

By the way Macro mode seems to do only 1 thing: it sets smaller aperture by 1-2 stops (and of course adjusts shutter speed accordingly) than it would set in P mode. White balanced is set to auto and cannot be changed, but metering is not touched (i.e. if metering was set to centre weighted then it remains in that setting).
04-19-2009, 05:41 AM   #29
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Reading this post does not make me miss my k10d!!! When will Pentax get the metering right?
04-19-2009, 06:09 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Thumper Quote
Reading this post does not make me miss my k10d!!! When will Pentax get the metering right?
Unless you know something I don't, there's no indication of systemic failure to meter properly in this thread. Possibly a faulty camera or two, though. There isn't yet enough data to explain what happened.
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