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04-15-2007, 07:01 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by steffi Quote
Managed to find one to play with in a remote part of Thailand.

Whilst I appreciate that it's impossible to evaluate this camera whilst in the store I will just say that for me the shutter lag was apparent and I wasn't completely won over by the ergonomics. Things felt a little and I do mean a little cramped for me. The camera had the 18-55 kit lens. It was remarkable to even find one in this part of Thailand so I consider myself fortunate to have had a chance to look it over.
Well, Southeast Asia is primarily a land of Canons and Nikons. I know, I'm from the Philippines.

Anyway, if you don't feel the K10D is up to scratch for what you want, then move on to other brands.

Personally, I'm happy with my K10D and I'm sure other people in these forums are, as well. Whatever floats your boat.

A suggestion. If you find the K10D cramped, you might as well move on to the D2Xs's and the 1Ds's or move on to medium-format backs, as the 30D and the D80 are of similar size as the K10D.

Now that you've said what you want to say, kindly move on along out the forums and take care.

04-15-2007, 07:08 AM   #17
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Maybe this is not about shutter lag. This is due to delayed nerve conduction from eyes to the brains...
04-15-2007, 07:17 AM   #18
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You Mean "Mylinating of the Dendrites?"

QuoteOriginally posted by roentarre Quote
Maybe this is not about shutter lag. This is due to delayed nerve conduction from eyes to the brains...
I think we might need a second opinion. I think it may be due to a lack of the "Mylination" process and as a resultant lack of mylinating of the dendrites there is an apparent lag. Once mylinated the problem will cease to exist.

Last edited by benjikan; 04-15-2007 at 04:38 PM.
04-15-2007, 07:25 AM   #19
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I guess I'm in the mood to add to this ridiculous thread.

Shutter lag? I haven't noticed it. I shoot mostly people photography - portraits, weddings, and my dark twisted art projects - and I have never lost a shot on any of my Pentax SLRs, digital or film, including my K10D.

Lenses mounts? Why would you want to put a non Pentax lens on a Pentax camera? Yes, Pentax does make very nice cameras. I think the best quality and feature set per dollar. But make no mistake, the absolute best reason to shoot Pentax cameras is so you can use Pentax lenses, which are among the best available.

Ever wonder why Pentax lenses are so hard to find? They used to be everywhere, until the secret got out. They are hard to find because everyone wants them.

04-15-2007, 08:06 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
What are you talking about? I have the Canon 1D Mkll's as well as the 20D and the 350D. The shutter lag on the K10D is non-discernible. I have shot subjects jumping in the air, throwing objects and moving towards the camera and the only "Shutter Lag" I have experienced is NOT shutter lag! It is focus confirmation. In fact I have turned off auto focus and haven't experienced this so called anomaly.
Any camera function, including the AF, contribute to the total *system* time lag of the camera.

Of course, you can turn off the AF to shorten the delay, if it is one of the culprits found. But, the delay will appear again when AF is activated, in this case. Just say if the SR contributes also to the lengthened system time lag, it could be turned off too.

Actually, the system time lag can be measured, as well as the AF time lag. Here are some figures for some Pentax DSLRs and the MZ-S:-
RiceHigh's Pentax K100D Full Review

Anyway, according to your practical experience, could you find any idifference between the four: 1DMkII, 20D, 350D and the K10D? Just curious to know..

QuoteQuote:
Have you actually used your camera in real life shooting situations and experienced this "malady"? Because I use this camera PROFESSIONALLY and when I say "I have" what I mean is this. When I do a shoot, I am generally capturing over 600 images per day. Now that is being conservative. The demands made on my "Tool" is such that, if it doesn't perform as required, I will be in that very deep and proverbial "S--T without a paddle". I can assure you that if this problem was apparent, my affiliation with PENTAX would cease rather abruptly. It is a none issue that is only becoming an issue with what I would classify as "DIS-INFORMATION"

Sir..I beg to differ.
I think these are two separate issues on whether a photographer can use the camera as a tool of his and whether cameras are made differently and perform differently, which two are irrelevant actually. Just say a DSLR which could complete the AF within 1 second and the other within 0.5 second, in average, both cameras can still work as a tool for quite some users. Same applies for a 0.2 second or 0.1 second or even 50ms system time lag between cameras, whilst the difference can be measured or just "felt", practically, as you say, the "malady" maybe a non-issue for quite some applications, no matter it is for earning money or just for hobby.

As I have said, it's about a feeling for using the K10D in reallife, of the OP and also mine (I found the same, repeatedly). If I can have the time, I shall do the timing measurement for the K10D and the timing figures can be obtained *scientifically*, then the *difference* can be compared against the K100D, *ist D and the MZ-S (which have already been measured in my above quoted report).
04-15-2007, 08:14 AM   #21
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Canon vs Pentax Shutter Lag

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Any camera function, including the AF, contribute to the total *system* time lag of the camera.

Of course, you can turn off the AF to shorten the delay, if it is one of the culprits found. But, the delay will appear again when AF is activated, in this case. Just say if the SR contributes also to the lengthened system time lag, it could be turned off too.

Actually, the system time lag can be measured, as well as the AF time lag. Here are some figures for some Pentax DSLRs and the MZ-S:-
RiceHigh's Pentax K100D Full Review

Anyway, according to your practical experience, could you find any idifference between the four: 1DMkII, 20D, 350D and the K10D? Just curious to know..



I think these are two separate issues on whether a photographer can use the camera as a tool of his and whether cameras are made differently and perform differently, which two are irrelevant actually. Just say a DSLR which could complete the AF within 1 second and the other within 0.5 second, in average, both cameras can still work as a tool for quite some users. Same applies for a 0.2 second or 0.1 second or even 50ms system time lag between cameras, whilst the difference can be measured or just "felt", practically, as you say, the "malady" maybe a non-issue for quite some applications, no matter it is for earning money or just for hobby.

As I have said, it's about a feeling for using the K10D in reallife, of the OP and also mine (I found the same, repeatedly). If I can have the time, I shall do the timing measurement for the K10D and the timing figures can be obtained *scientifically*, then the *difference* can be compared against the K100D, *ist D and the MZ-S (which have already been measured in my above quoted report).
As I stated in my post, I have used and own Canon. In fact I was "conditioned" to Canon. Being that I have shot with Canon since 1987. I own four Canons and Canon would lend me the Canon 1DS Mkll when ever I requested it. If there was an apparent difference in shutter response, my visceral conditioning would have kicked in. By that I mean, after taking in excess of 1,000,000 images with Canon's and being that we humans are "Pavlovian" the difference in shutter reaction would be flagrant to say the least. Shutter response for me is near instantaneous and the differences between the Canon's and my K10D's are negligible or not apparent.

Oh..Yes, it is NOT a hobby. I have been earning a rather nice living by my practice as a photographer for a little over 27 years now...

One more thing, while you are "OUT" testing the K10D..Do me a favor, compare it to the Canon's, Nikon's and Sony's. We wouldn't want to give the impression that Pentax's only competition is Pentax.

To tell you the truth, being that I AM making my living from this camera your observations are "Moot"...By that I mean, if your conclusions and outcome are what I expect they will be, i.e. Flagrant Shutter Lag. What will I do? I will have to go back to Canon, until of course I realize that Canon are also infected with a similar "malady" and as a result will have to give up photography and take up bench testing.

Last edited by benjikan; 04-15-2007 at 08:27 AM.
04-15-2007, 08:14 AM   #22
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Canon vs Pentax Shutter Lag

QuoteOriginally posted by RiceHigh Quote
Any camera function, including the AF, contribute to the total *system* time lag of the camera.

Of course, you can turn off the AF to shorten the delay, if it is one of the culprits found. But, the delay will appear again when AF is activated, in this case. Just say if the SR contributes also to the lengthened system time lag, it could be turned off too.

Actually, the system time lag can be measured, as well as the AF time lag. Here are some figures for some Pentax DSLRs and the MZ-S:-
RiceHigh's Pentax K100D Full Review

Anyway, according to your practical experience, could you find any idifference between the four: 1DMkII, 20D, 350D and the K10D? Just curious to know..



I think these are two separate issues on whether a photographer can use the camera as a tool of his and whether cameras are made differently and perform differently, which two are irrelevant actually. Just say a DSLR which could complete the AF within 1 second and the other within 0.5 second, in average, both cameras can still work as a tool for quite some users. Same applies for a 0.2 second or 0.1 second or even 50ms system time lag between cameras, whilst the difference can be measured or just "felt", practically, as you say, the "malady" maybe a non-issue for quite some applications, no matter it is for earning money or just for hobby.

As I have said, it's about a feeling for using the K10D in reallife, of the OP and also mine (I found the same, repeatedly). If I can have the time, I shall do the timing measurement for the K10D and the timing figures can be obtained *scientifically*, then the *difference* can be compared against the K100D, *ist D and the MZ-S (which have already been measured in my above quoted report).
Sorry..Pardon the post...Don't know how it double posted...Pehaps it was the "ENTER" key LAG...
04-15-2007, 08:42 AM   #23
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I'm the kind of person who typically likes to have one and only one lense instead of a collection of primes. I don't like to carry a dedicated photo bag with me. That said I do see the advantage of having 1.4f primes and may buy a prime with the body of my next camera. And I do agree that lenses last thru many generations of bodys and obviously Pentax assures owners that it's lenses will always continue to function. I previously had a mostly positive experience with my last DSLR which was the D30 from Canon and I mostly used it with a 28-105 USM lens and I was satisifed with the results from that lens. It just seems to me that to be happy with a K10D I'd already have to have a collection of Pentax FA lenses. Where are the newer 2.8f zooms that were recently announced? I haven't read any responses of anybody using those.

In Thailand they don't typically allow you to return anything you buy here so you have to be 100% sure you like the product you're buying at the time you're buying it. Hence all the more reason to fully research the product your buying. Secondly you don't have a lot of time in the store to test the product either. I certainly wasn't well versed in the operation of the camera when I tested it. This was a purely first impression experience and not the last time I'll pick up the body. That said it isn't readily available here as I'm told this is Canon country despite the D200 being a better buy over the 30D at the moment and a plethora of 18-200 AFS lenses in the stores and a 5D is not something I'm interested in. If Pentax had a lens similar in function and reputation to the 18-200 AFS I'd probably be able to do a more direct comparison. That said I may just buy a 50mm prime as my first lens. Nikon and Canon are easily the best supported cameras here in Thailand WRT to accessories and lenses. The store I saw the K10D didn't have any other Pentax lens to show only the kit lens on both the K10D and older body.

04-15-2007, 08:45 AM   #24
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Personally, I see a trend here. Steffi is not the first person to suddenly appear on this forum, criticize the K10D, point out "Ricehigh's" web site and then have Ricehigh show up to vehemently defend the "new" poster.

IMHO, all of these posters are nothing more than the alter-ego of Ricehigh himself.

These Screen names are created to do nothing more than troll. Of course, Ricehigh will take immediate issue with me over this but, I'm betting 100 to 1 that I'm right on the money here.


"addendum"

I also find it quite interesting that "Steffi" chose to include no information about himself in his profile.

Last edited by racinsince55; 04-15-2007 at 08:52 AM.
04-15-2007, 08:56 AM   #25
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I can assure you I'm not RiceHigh in disguise. It was another poster here in this forum who posted a link to RiceHigh's blog and cited it as a balanced viewpoint. I can assure you that I'm not RiceHigh nor am I heavily experienced with DSLRs. Why do you guys bash RiceHigh so much? He claims to own quite a lot of Pentax gear and I've never heard him advocating a competitor so why give him such a hard time. He seems to be a lot more informed about DSLRs than I for sure and I welcome his skepticism. But enough with the conspiracy theories he and I are not the same person nor do I have any affiliation with him. Actually to be honest I'm simply somebody who desparately doesn't want to buy Nikon as I don't like the customer support and Canon right now doesn't have any offering that interests me given that the 30D is an 8.2 megapixel camera nor does it have weather seals.
04-15-2007, 09:16 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by steffi Quote
-snip-
...I'm simply somebody who desparately doesn't want to buy Nikon as I don't like the customer support and Canon right now doesn't have any offering that interests me given that the 30D is an 8.2 megapixel camera nor does it have weather seals.
I read all this with some interest. I don't find the thread idiotic (but the first post was quite close to imbecile) as it reflects what a prospective buyer thinks vs what the brand defenders think. The Net is an interesting and boring place at the same time. Nothing new here in other words.

So, what are you after? Is 8MP too little? Weather sealing is a must? One lens is enough...

The DA* zooms Pentax has announced are supposed to reach the market pretty soon. I don't have the exact date but say within the month of May. Then Pentax will have sealed body and sealed lenses.

As Olympus have one weather sealed (or better; rain proof) body and sealed lenses it may be an option. "Only" 5MP though, which is bad for anyone believing in multi pixels (another area for you to research in my opinion).

Then we have Canon.

So, what's your pick, and why?

(And why don't you respond to other threads you have started? In the long run it is very boring with people asking things and not replying after having got help/directions. We are not search engines but humans.)

regards,
04-15-2007, 09:43 AM   #27
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I'm just wondering if steffi tried a lemon camera It's possible, and could explain part of his poor experience.

steffi, if you have a chance to pick up another 1 somewhere why not see if it acts the same. You shouldn't have any noticeable camera lag there, although there's nothing that you can do about the ergonomics.

And before you say anything bad about the kit lens take a look at all the GOOD photo's that we've taken on ours. The lens is underrated to say the least.
04-15-2007, 10:11 AM   #28
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I have lurked the forum for a while and this is a little bit worrying, is this the kind of forum where you have to be a blind fanboy and praise Pentax no matter what? If so, please let me know and I will leave. Blind fanaticism is not what I’m looking for in a forum.
04-15-2007, 10:30 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
I have lurked the forum for a while and this is a little bit worrying, is this the kind of forum where you have to be a blind fanboy and praise Pentax no matter what? If so, please let me know and I will leave. Blind fanaticism is not what I’m looking for in a forum.
Oh, come on now. Another troll? There aren't many, if any, 'blind fanboy's here. What you will find here are people who don't care for unfounded criticism, or bashing of a product without basis.


little laker, no offense, but I really think internet forums distort the idea of just how many lemon cameras are running about.

The biggest liability of the K10d is its low price point; it makes every Tom, Dick, and Harry with the cash in their pocket and an ego the size of the Grand Canyon, think they are capable of handling the camera, and obviously also being underwhelmed by it. It's one thing to not like the ergonomics, but to talk about something as ridiculous as shutter lag related to any DSLR (C&N not excluded) is a sure sign you don't know much about what you're talking about. [the buffer is small--okay, "I got a really slow shutter speed because I'm shooting indoors with the kit lens, and autofocus is not a miracle worker"--not okay]
04-15-2007, 10:30 AM   #30
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i shoot sports with the k10d, using various manual focus prime lenses, and i don't see any problem with the speed of the shutter response... there is no "shutter lag" that i can see.
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