Do Samsung reserve the better sensors for the GX20?

asw66 · 04-25-2009, 04:31 PM

There's always a certain amount of variation in the quality of the chips produced in each batch. These quality variations can be identified, and the lesser (but still adequate) ones can be sold off cheaply, while the best ones will command a higher price. At least, that's my understanding of CPU production, and I imagine that the production of camera sensors would be similar in this respect.

I noticed that the K20D and GX20 get different sensor results in DX0 testing, which leads me to wonder if Samsung are reserving the better chips for their own line. See:

Compare cameras

ftpaddict · 04-25-2009, 04:46 PM

Have you also noticed that the K10D gets better results than the K20D in DxO testing? I guess Pentax reserves the right to use the better sensors in the older cameras.

Seriously, though, DxO's tests are shaky at best. The Luminous Landscape seems to agree, though for the love of me I can't find the link right now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Jasvox · 04-26-2009, 06:31 AM

Perhaps this theory (as silly as I find it) is the reason why Samsung charges more for the GX20 than Pentax does for the K20D?

Jason

MrApollinax · 04-26-2009, 07:20 AM

I am going to go on a limb and say not so much. If you consider how many of the sensors they make (as well as the fact that they use the same people/plant to fabricate other sensors) then it would be pretty hard to find the best sensors to put only into their own cameras. Also take into account that they would have to forecast the exact amount of cameras both Pentax and Samsung will need from year to year to get the "best" sensors. I am more of the school of thought that Samsung has engineers more familiar with the behavior of the sensors so their software takes advantage of things that they know vs Pentax who is given a firmware to integrate into their own software.

nulla · 04-27-2009, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

Perhaps this theory (as silly as I find it) is the reason why Samsung charges more for the GX20 than Pentax does for the K20D?

Jason

They must send to Australia then the lessor quality Samsungs as they are cheaper here than K20's

WerTicus · 04-27-2009, 02:05 AM

the gx20 wasnt cheaper when i bought my k20d

or id have had a gx20

ftpaddict · 04-27-2009, 03:23 AM

HA! As you can see in this thread, one can get a crazy-cheap GX20. No such offer from Pentax.

kenyee · 04-27-2009, 06:46 AM

Originally posted by asw66

I noticed that the K20D and GX20 get different sensor results in DX0 testing, which leads me to wonder if Samsung are reserving the better chips for their own line.

Also note that they used a higher precision ADC IIRC...

Jasvox · 04-27-2009, 07:08 AM

The bottom must have dropped out for the GX20 price....seems the price is about 200 dollars cheaper now than a couple of months ago when I last checked...

According to Amazon's prices, the GX20 is still higher priced than the K20D as of today...

Anyway.

Jason

nulla · 05-01-2009, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by WerTicus

the gx20 wasnt cheaper when i bought my k20d

or id have had a gx20

Mine was more than $250 cheaper at Teds Cameras about 12 months ago

reeftool · 05-01-2009, 09:34 PM

I don't know a whole lot about the manufacturing process of sensors and CPU's but I have read in many articles that that after a certain chip is in production for a while that almost all of them are very high quality so it's pretty safe to buy the slower chips for less money when building a system and overclock. If camera sensors are similar in the manufacture then after a few months of production there should be very little quality difference. It would not be in their best interest to sell Pentax crappy sensors. Samsung is the new kid on the block in the camera world and they need a quality camera maker with the reputation of Pentax to use their sensors.

lxdude · 05-04-2009, 11:11 AM

The difference isn't much. It's doubtful they'd go to the trouble. Funny, DxO has the pixel pitch as being different.

Igilligan · 05-05-2009, 10:58 AM

Of course they do... why wouldn't they? Their name is on it!

And Toyota uses higher quality parts in their Japanese built Toyotas, than they do for the Mex-american made cars.
Even closer to home in this forum... The Pentax Vietnamese factories, send the highest rated (QC'd) lenses to the Asian Pacific markets and the lowest rated to the European - American markets...

From high on the Grassy Knoll, Gus Oswald reporting...

**ManuH** · 05-05-2009, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by ftpaddict

Have you also noticed that the K10D gets better results than the K20D in DxO testing?

They corrected their numbers since 28/4. Now the high ISO performance of all the Pentax is down... (for example, the K20D was better than the D300 before the change). The GX20 is still not corrected and enjoy a second place amongst the APS-C cameras!

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor/DxOMark-reviews/DxOMark-...Pentax-cameras

ftpaddict · 05-05-2009, 01:44 PM

Originally posted by ManuH

They corrected their numbers since 28/4. Now the high ISO performance of all the Pentax is down... (for example, the K20D was better than the D300 before the change). The GX20 is still not corrected and enjoy a second place amongst the APS-C cameras!

DxOMark review for Pentax cameras

DxO isn't impervious to bribery. Something foul is afoot.

04-25-2009, 04:31 PM	#1
asw66 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 347	Do Samsung reserve the better sensors for the GX20? There's always a certain amount of variation in the quality of the chips produced in each batch. These quality variations can be identified, and the lesser (but still adequate) ones can be sold off cheaply, while the best ones will command a higher price. At least, that's my understanding of CPU production, and I imagine that the production of camera sensors would be similar in this respect. I noticed that the K20D and GX20 get different sensor results in DX0 testing, which leads me to wonder if Samsung are reserving the better chips for their own line. See: Compare cameras

05-05-2009, 10:58 AM	#13
Igilligan Guest	Yes Of course they do... why wouldn't they? Their name is on it! And Toyota uses higher quality parts in their Japanese built Toyotas, than they do for the Mex-american made cars. Even closer to home in this forum... The Pentax Vietnamese factories, send the highest rated (QC'd) lenses to the Asian Pacific markets and the lowest rated to the European - American markets... From high on the Grassy Knoll, Gus Oswald reporting...

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04-25-2009, 04:46 PM	#2
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Have you also noticed that the K10D gets better results than the K20D in DxO testing? I guess Pentax reserves the right to use the better sensors in the older cameras. Seriously, though, DxO's tests are shaky at best. The Luminous Landscape seems to agree, though for the love of me I can't find the link right now. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

04-26-2009, 06:31 AM	#3
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	Perhaps this theory (as silly as I find it) is the reason why Samsung charges more for the GX20 than Pentax does for the K20D? Jason

04-26-2009, 07:20 AM	#4
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	I am going to go on a limb and say not so much. If you consider how many of the sensors they make (as well as the fact that they use the same people/plant to fabricate other sensors) then it would be pretty hard to find the best sensors to put only into their own cameras. Also take into account that they would have to forecast the exact amount of cameras both Pentax and Samsung will need from year to year to get the "best" sensors. I am more of the school of thought that Samsung has engineers more familiar with the behavior of the sensors so their software takes advantage of things that they know vs Pentax who is given a firmware to integrate into their own software.

04-27-2009, 01:34 AM	#5
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	Originally posted by Jasvox Perhaps this theory (as silly as I find it) is the reason why Samsung charges more for the GX20 than Pentax does for the K20D? Jason They must send to Australia then the lessor quality Samsungs as they are cheaper here than K20's

04-27-2009, 02:05 AM	#6
WerTicus Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Perth Australia Photos: Albums Posts: 1,514	the gx20 wasnt cheaper when i bought my k20d or id have had a gx20

04-27-2009, 03:23 AM	#7
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	HA! As you can see in this thread, one can get a crazy-cheap GX20. No such offer from Pentax.

04-27-2009, 06:46 AM	#8
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by asw66 I noticed that the K20D and GX20 get different sensor results in DX0 testing, which leads me to wonder if Samsung are reserving the better chips for their own line. Also note that they used a higher precision ADC IIRC...

04-27-2009, 07:08 AM	#9
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	The bottom must have dropped out for the GX20 price....seems the price is about 200 dollars cheaper now than a couple of months ago when I last checked... According to Amazon's prices, the GX20 is still higher priced than the K20D as of today... Anyway. Jason

05-01-2009, 12:43 AM	#10
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	Originally posted by WerTicus the gx20 wasnt cheaper when i bought my k20d or id have had a gx20 Mine was more than $250 cheaper at Teds Cameras about 12 months ago

05-01-2009, 09:34 PM	#11
reeftool Pentaxian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Upstate New York Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 9,553	I don't know a whole lot about the manufacturing process of sensors and CPU's but I have read in many articles that that after a certain chip is in production for a while that almost all of them are very high quality so it's pretty safe to buy the slower chips for less money when building a system and overclock. If camera sensors are similar in the manufacture then after a few months of production there should be very little quality difference. It would not be in their best interest to sell Pentax crappy sensors. Samsung is the new kid on the block in the camera world and they need a quality camera maker with the reputation of Pentax to use their sensors.

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05-04-2009, 11:11 AM	#12
lxdude New Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Southern California Posts: 14	The difference isn't much. It's doubtful they'd go to the trouble. Funny, DxO has the pixel pitch as being different.

05-05-2009, 11:42 AM	#14
ManuH Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Montreal Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,249	Originally posted by ftpaddict Have you also noticed that the K10D gets better results than the K20D in DxO testing? They corrected their numbers since 28/4. Now the high ISO performance of all the Pentax is down... (for example, the K20D was better than the D300 before the change). The GX20 is still not corrected and enjoy a second place amongst the APS-C cameras! http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/DxOMark-Sensor/DxOMark-reviews/DxOMark-...Pentax-cameras

05-05-2009, 01:44 PM	#15
ftpaddict Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Yurp Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,666	Originally posted by ManuH They corrected their numbers since 28/4. Now the high ISO performance of all the Pentax is down... (for example, the K20D was better than the D300 before the change). The GX20 is still not corrected and enjoy a second place amongst the APS-C cameras! DxOMark review for Pentax cameras DxO isn't impervious to bribery. Something foul is afoot.