Reasons to stay Pentax?? Don't hate me

FotoPete · 04-26-2009, 06:17 PM

Hey Steve,

Don't take it hard on yourself.

Alot of what needs to be said has already been said and this is where field experience really counts.

Reading over what you said, I can say right off the bat, its tough to be using flash at a car show because the cars will reflect alot of light and may bias your exposure leading to severely underexposed or dark backgrounds and an awkwardly lit car. This is a common problems with flash I find. That's not mentioning the reflections on the body you might pick out.

You also mentioned colour balance. Typical lightning in tradeshows, indoor events tend to be rather challenging to correct for. If you use a 'naked' flash, you introduce alot of light of another colour temperature so now your camera has to pick and choose. If you set your WB preset to flash, your background/ambient light will not be corrected. If you choose the correct WB for your ambient light, your foreground lit by the flash will be off in colour.

Steps you might wanna try when walking into any event if you haven't already is to try ambient (cuz you got DA* 2.8 zooms!) as well as your flash, but use a diffuser or bounce card. Maybe a gel that is close to your ambient colour if you are willing to go as far as that to reduce the disparity between your flash colour temp. and your ambient temp.

Don't be alarmed. It happens to everyone regardless of brand especially with flash exposure. It took me about a year of on and off trial and error to really begin to understand the fundamentals of flash exposure using a manual flash. Being able to piece together foreground, ambient and what settings to adjust etc.

Hope it helps and don't think just cuz your buddy has a Nikon, you gotta switch. The rules of the game are the same regardless of brand.

If you still don't believe me, I'm like the only Pentaxian at school shooting alongside Canon's, Nikon's, Olympus dSLR shooters for three years. I've rarely ever been tempted to switch.

Last edited by FotoPete; 04-26-2009 at 06:23 PM.

**Digitalis** · 04-26-2009, 06:30 PM

if you really want a reason to stay with Pentax... look at this image for a minute and see how badly you want a Nikon afterwards.
Nikon do make very good cameras, their lenses especially the professional ones are exceptionally good, though I haven't seen anything from either Canon or Nikon that compares to the outright quality of the FA and DA limited lenses but in the end it's just another camera.

68wSteve · 04-27-2009, 04:25 AM

Sorry for taking so long to responde to all your points. You all bring out great things and yeah it probably is user error with settings and what not. still trying to get use to the camera though ive had it alot. was just really suprised when my friend had it on the auto settings and came out with some great pictures. me im trying to get use to use Tav or manual mode and change the settings myself. but looks like i need more practice at that. i guess it was hard when was with people the other day so i couldnt spend the whole day there testing settings. guess thats what i need to just get out and do.

netuser · 04-27-2009, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by 68wSteve

Sorry for taking so long to responde to all your points. You all bring out great things and yeah it probably is user error with settings and what not. still trying to get use to the camera though ive had it alot. was just really suprised when my friend had it on the auto settings and came out with some great pictures. me im trying to get use to use Tav or manual mode and change the settings myself. but looks like i need more practice at that. i guess it was hard when was with people the other day so i couldnt spend the whole day there testing settings. guess thats what i need to just get out and do.

With all the GREAT gear you have, you "only" need to use it properly.

Four months ago I had a similar experience with my kids Christmas partys at school.
I didn't had, at the time, your gear. Images were just terrible with and without the flash.

Now I have better gear, similar to yours but the main point is that I now know more, much more

(still improving every day

)

Pictures taken with the "new gear" three months ago were not OK, taken now on similar ocasions are OK

and make my canikon friends (I'm the only Pentax user

) already to keep their mouth closed while "in the begining" they would tease to change.

My images improved because I improved. Another point, even on the short run, is that I/Pentax have better glass (color rendition, 3d effect etc) then they have

and that already shows

I think I made my point.

Read, learn from the forum and all this guys that can really educate us and Go shoot, that's what I do as much as I can.

Cheers

B Grace · 04-27-2009, 05:33 AM

Here I was expecting to open that car show page and find photos of cars! I think the shots look pretty decent considering the conditions. I'm curious about the ISO range the D90 shooter was using in Auto mode. I'm also curious about issues with shadows due to using only available light - I bet some form of fill was needed. As for WB, the temperature of modern lighting in arenas and auditoriums can be all over the place so, yes, a pro shoot would/should begin with a custom WB setting.

**monochrome** · 04-27-2009, 05:51 AM

Kay Dash Seven

ftahir · 04-27-2009, 08:52 AM

It is heart breaking when you see some one with Nikon on auto settings getting better result while you are using all you knowledge with Pentax still not happy with the result.

It all depends, if you are there solely for taking picture, I'd say stick with Pentax and learn more and spend more time taking picture and refine your skill.

But if you are there to enjoy the event and want to go home with great picture, I'd switch to Nikon with auto setting, you'll be able to snap here and there without going through your head calculating this and that and watch for the lights source etc, etc.

I know I can get more pictures I like on Pentax, but again, I also get more picture that is not good because I forgot to change the setting, or by the time I'm ready, the moment is gone.

Ferdy

Originally posted by 68wSteve

Sorry for taking so long to responde to all your points. You all bring out great things and yeah it probably is user error with settings and what not. still trying to get use to the camera though ive had it alot. was just really suprised when my friend had it on the auto settings and came out with some great pictures. me im trying to get use to use Tav or manual mode and change the settings myself. but looks like i need more practice at that. i guess it was hard when was with people the other day so i couldnt spend the whole day there testing settings. guess thats what i need to just get out and do.

Wheatfield · 04-27-2009, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by ftahir

It is heart breaking when you see some one with Nikon on auto settings getting better result while you are using all you knowledge with Pentax still not happy with the result.

It all depends, if you are there solely for taking picture, I'd say stick with Pentax and learn more and spend more time taking picture and refine your skill.

But if you are there to enjoy the event and want to go home with great picture, I'd switch to Nikon with auto setting, you'll be able to snap here and there without going through your head calculating this and that and watch for the lights source etc, etc.

I know I can get more pictures I like on Pentax, but again, I also get more picture that is not good because I forgot to change the setting, or by the time I'm ready, the moment is gone.

Ferdy

I'm not sure if the OP has actually made prints or even viewed his images on a monitor, and Elvis sems to have left the building.
However, most, if not all, of his concerns can be solved by adjusting the contrast, sharpness and saturation settings on his camera. It's quite well documented that Nikon uses a more aggressive approach to in camera image processing, I suspect because it makes images look more vibrant on the view screen.

boom · 04-27-2009, 09:51 AM

For those who are still wondering what the OP's images were about, head on over to his Korea 2009 Tuning gallery. Whitford Photography's Photo Galleries at pbase.com

steve500 · 04-27-2009, 09:58 AM

I somewhat feel the same. Whenever I use a D90 or canon XTi at school.. I feel like my photos are so more well-exposed than any of my auto-exposed photos on ANY of the pentax DSLR's i've ever owned regardless of what lens I am using...

Although I know if I were to switch systems I'd start feeling the same about that system also in some sort of way. Although, I love that accessories, mods, glass, and other options are more widely available on Ni*** and Ca***... but what about sigma.. eh?

nah · 04-27-2009, 12:43 PM

My friend has a D90 and when I first shot with it, the output on the back monitor made the picture look outstanding. I shot with my K20D and it didn't look as good. Same shot, it's just the Nikon's LCD screen is a lot better. I'm sure this is what the OP was seeing with his friend's D90.

Damn Brit · 04-27-2009, 01:02 PM

Steve I haven't seen you posting many pictures on the forum.
How about posting some so that we can try and deconstruct them? It's cheaper than buying a new system and it should help you improve as a photographer.

Please, no more operations though.

kenyee · 04-27-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by boom

For those who are still wondering what the OP's images were about, head on over to his Korea 2009 Tuning gallery. Whitford Photography's Photo Galleries at pbase.com

Wow...the Boston car show sucks. No wonder I don't go to it any more...when's the next Korean auto show so I can burn some vacation time and show the OP how those images would look w/ a 77Ltd???

We need comparisons w/ the Nikon images to see what's wrong. My guess is you don't post process much. These two could look a bit better w/ tweaked levels...

gnaztee · 04-27-2009, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by nah

My friend has a D90 and when I first shot with it, the output on the back monitor made the picture look outstanding. I shot with my K20D and it didn't look as good. Same shot, it's just the Nikon's LCD screen is a lot better. I'm sure this is what the OP was seeing with his friend's D90.

I had this experience as well with a D300. When a guy I work with first got it and I played around with it, I thought, "Wow! These pics POP!" Of course, after using it more I realized it's definitely a very good camera, but the difference in image output between it and my K10D isn't nearly as dramatic as the LCD ouputs would suggest. I've often thought that an LCD upgrade would be the single biggest thing Pentax could do to improve sales, as people will compare cameras in-store and think, wrongly (like I stupidly did), that the rear-screen output = image quality.

-=JoN=- · 04-27-2009, 04:58 PM

hm..I found the colours on the k20 come out more vibrant than on the d700...I tweak a bit more on post to get some colours right on some of my d700 shots...

here's a comparison i did not too long ago..not the best.. but...
i forgot the settings ( i have to look at the original exif...)
but here's the set up
k20d da*50-135
d700 micro nikkor 60mm

i found the greens come out more on the k20's shot...
both were on RAW "general punch" applied in LR

(sorry for the size)

04-27-2009, 05:51 AM	#21
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Reasons to stay with Pentax Kay Dash Seven

04-27-2009, 02:21 PM	#29
gnaztee Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: West Palm Beach, FL Posts: 772	Rear LCD Originally posted by nah My friend has a D90 and when I first shot with it, the output on the back monitor made the picture look outstanding. I shot with my K20D and it didn't look as good. Same shot, it's just the Nikon's LCD screen is a lot better. I'm sure this is what the OP was seeing with his friend's D90. I had this experience as well with a D300. When a guy I work with first got it and I played around with it, I thought, "Wow! These pics POP!" Of course, after using it more I realized it's definitely a very good camera, but the difference in image output between it and my K10D isn't nearly as dramatic as the LCD ouputs would suggest. I've often thought that an LCD upgrade would be the single biggest thing Pentax could do to improve sales, as people will compare cameras in-store and think, wrongly (like I stupidly did), that the rear-screen output = image quality.

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04-26-2009, 06:17 PM	#16
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	Hey Steve, Don't take it hard on yourself. Alot of what needs to be said has already been said and this is where field experience really counts. Reading over what you said, I can say right off the bat, its tough to be using flash at a car show because the cars will reflect alot of light and may bias your exposure leading to severely underexposed or dark backgrounds and an awkwardly lit car. This is a common problems with flash I find. That's not mentioning the reflections on the body you might pick out. You also mentioned colour balance. Typical lightning in tradeshows, indoor events tend to be rather challenging to correct for. If you use a 'naked' flash, you introduce alot of light of another colour temperature so now your camera has to pick and choose. If you set your WB preset to flash, your background/ambient light will not be corrected. If you choose the correct WB for your ambient light, your foreground lit by the flash will be off in colour. Steps you might wanna try when walking into any event if you haven't already is to try ambient (cuz you got DA* 2.8 zooms!) as well as your flash, but use a diffuser or bounce card. Maybe a gel that is close to your ambient colour if you are willing to go as far as that to reduce the disparity between your flash colour temp. and your ambient temp. Don't be alarmed. It happens to everyone regardless of brand especially with flash exposure. It took me about a year of on and off trial and error to really begin to understand the fundamentals of flash exposure using a manual flash. Being able to piece together foreground, ambient and what settings to adjust etc. Hope it helps and don't think just cuz your buddy has a Nikon, you gotta switch. The rules of the game are the same regardless of brand. If you still don't believe me, I'm like the only Pentaxian at school shooting alongside Canon's, Nikon's, Olympus dSLR shooters for three years. I've rarely ever been tempted to switch. Last edited by FotoPete; 04-26-2009 at 06:23 PM.

04-26-2009, 06:30 PM	#17
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	if you really want a reason to stay with Pentax... look at this image for a minute and see how badly you want a Nikon afterwards. Nikon do make very good cameras, their lenses especially the professional ones are exceptionally good, though I haven't seen anything from either Canon or Nikon that compares to the outright quality of the FA and DA limited lenses but in the end it's just another camera.

04-27-2009, 04:25 AM	#18
68wSteve Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Hurst, Texas 76053 Posts: 474 Original Poster	Sorry for taking so long to responde to all your points. You all bring out great things and yeah it probably is user error with settings and what not. still trying to get use to the camera though ive had it alot. was just really suprised when my friend had it on the auto settings and came out with some great pictures. me im trying to get use to use Tav or manual mode and change the settings myself. but looks like i need more practice at that. i guess it was hard when was with people the other day so i couldnt spend the whole day there testing settings. guess thats what i need to just get out and do.

04-27-2009, 05:33 AM	#19
netuser Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Azores Islands, Portugal Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,236	Originally posted by 68wSteve Sorry for taking so long to responde to all your points. You all bring out great things and yeah it probably is user error with settings and what not. still trying to get use to the camera though ive had it alot. was just really suprised when my friend had it on the auto settings and came out with some great pictures. me im trying to get use to use Tav or manual mode and change the settings myself. but looks like i need more practice at that. i guess it was hard when was with people the other day so i couldnt spend the whole day there testing settings. guess thats what i need to just get out and do. With all the GREAT gear you have, you "only" need to use it properly. Four months ago I had a similar experience with my kids Christmas partys at school. I didn't had, at the time, your gear. Images were just terrible with and without the flash. Now I have better gear, similar to yours but the main point is that I now know more, much more (still improving every day ) Pictures taken with the "new gear" three months ago were not OK, taken now on similar ocasions are OK and make my canikon friends (I'm the only Pentax user ) already to keep their mouth closed while "in the begining" they would tease to change. My images improved because I improved. Another point, even on the short run, is that I/Pentax have better glass (color rendition, 3d effect etc) then they have and that already shows I think I made my point. Read, learn from the forum and all this guys that can really educate us and Go shoot, that's what I do as much as I can. Cheers

04-27-2009, 05:33 AM	#20
B Grace Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Western Missouri Posts: 429	Here I was expecting to open that car show page and find photos of cars! I think the shots look pretty decent considering the conditions. I'm curious about the ISO range the D90 shooter was using in Auto mode. I'm also curious about issues with shadows due to using only available light - I bet some form of fill was needed. As for WB, the temperature of modern lighting in arenas and auditoriums can be all over the place so, yes, a pro shoot would/should begin with a custom WB setting.

04-27-2009, 08:52 AM	#22
ftahir New Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 3	It is heart breaking when you see some one with Nikon on auto settings getting better result while you are using all you knowledge with Pentax still not happy with the result. It all depends, if you are there solely for taking picture, I'd say stick with Pentax and learn more and spend more time taking picture and refine your skill. But if you are there to enjoy the event and want to go home with great picture, I'd switch to Nikon with auto setting, you'll be able to snap here and there without going through your head calculating this and that and watch for the lights source etc, etc. I know I can get more pictures I like on Pentax, but again, I also get more picture that is not good because I forgot to change the setting, or by the time I'm ready, the moment is gone. Ferdy Originally posted by 68wSteve Sorry for taking so long to responde to all your points. You all bring out great things and yeah it probably is user error with settings and what not. still trying to get use to the camera though ive had it alot. was just really suprised when my friend had it on the auto settings and came out with some great pictures. me im trying to get use to use Tav or manual mode and change the settings myself. but looks like i need more practice at that. i guess it was hard when was with people the other day so i couldnt spend the whole day there testing settings. guess thats what i need to just get out and do.

04-27-2009, 09:00 AM	#23
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by ftahir It is heart breaking when you see some one with Nikon on auto settings getting better result while you are using all you knowledge with Pentax still not happy with the result. It all depends, if you are there solely for taking picture, I'd say stick with Pentax and learn more and spend more time taking picture and refine your skill. But if you are there to enjoy the event and want to go home with great picture, I'd switch to Nikon with auto setting, you'll be able to snap here and there without going through your head calculating this and that and watch for the lights source etc, etc. I know I can get more pictures I like on Pentax, but again, I also get more picture that is not good because I forgot to change the setting, or by the time I'm ready, the moment is gone. Ferdy I'm not sure if the OP has actually made prints or even viewed his images on a monitor, and Elvis sems to have left the building. However, most, if not all, of his concerns can be solved by adjusting the contrast, sharpness and saturation settings on his camera. It's quite well documented that Nikon uses a more aggressive approach to in camera image processing, I suspect because it makes images look more vibrant on the view screen.

04-27-2009, 09:51 AM	#24
boom Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 32	For those who are still wondering what the OP's images were about, head on over to his Korea 2009 Tuning gallery. Whitford Photography's Photo Galleries at pbase.com

04-27-2009, 09:58 AM	#25
steve500 Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 86	I somewhat feel the same. Whenever I use a D90 or canon XTi at school.. I feel like my photos are so more well-exposed than any of my auto-exposed photos on ANY of the pentax DSLR's i've ever owned regardless of what lens I am using... Although I know if I were to switch systems I'd start feeling the same about that system also in some sort of way. Although, I love that accessories, mods, glass, and other options are more widely available on Ni* and Ca*... but what about sigma.. eh?

04-27-2009, 12:43 PM	#26
nah Senior Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: New Westminster, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 282	My friend has a D90 and when I first shot with it, the output on the back monitor made the picture look outstanding. I shot with my K20D and it didn't look as good. Same shot, it's just the Nikon's LCD screen is a lot better. I'm sure this is what the OP was seeing with his friend's D90.

04-27-2009, 01:02 PM	#27
Damn Brit Guest	Steve I haven't seen you posting many pictures on the forum. How about posting some so that we can try and deconstruct them? It's cheaper than buying a new system and it should help you improve as a photographer. Please, no more operations though.

04-27-2009, 02:17 PM	#28
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by boom For those who are still wondering what the OP's images were about, head on over to his Korea 2009 Tuning gallery. Whitford Photography's Photo Galleries at pbase.com Wow...the Boston car show sucks. No wonder I don't go to it any more...when's the next Korean auto show so I can burn some vacation time and show the OP how those images would look w/ a 77Ltd??? We need comparisons w/ the Nikon images to see what's wrong. My guess is you don't post process much. These two could look a bit better w/ tweaked levels...

04-27-2009, 04:58 PM	#30
-=JoN=- Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 999	hm..I found the colours on the k20 come out more vibrant than on the d700...I tweak a bit more on post to get some colours right on some of my d700 shots... here's a comparison i did not too long ago..not the best.. but... i forgot the settings ( i have to look at the original exif...) but here's the set up k20d da*50-135 d700 micro nikkor 60mm i found the greens come out more on the k20's shot... both were on RAW "general punch" applied in LR (sorry for the size)