Pentax PRO Feature that a Pro Photog couldn't find in CaNikon!

HermanLee · 04-27-2009, 10:24 AM

A Pro Photographer thought of the best camera in the world should be:
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2009/04/25/the-best-camera-in-the-world/

..and he wants that Pentax feature to be included!

Pentax is surely something!

edumad · 04-29-2009, 02:13 AM

I'm very surprised...
Don't all cameras work like that in Program?
I expect manual to be different, but Program, it just seems logical.

MrApollinax · 04-29-2009, 03:33 AM

No, in program the camera controls both Shutter speed and Aperture. At least that is what I have with my K100DS. I sometimes wonder what I'm missing out with the Hyper-Program modes on the K10D and K20D

creampuff · 04-29-2009, 04:29 AM

Originally posted by MrApollinax

No, in program the camera controls both Shutter speed and Aperture. At least that is what I have with my K100DS. I sometimes wonder what I'm missing out with the Hyper-Program modes on the K10D and K20D

Simply put... A LOT, speaking as someone who had the K100D and K100D Super, K10D and now K20D.

shadowulf · 04-29-2009, 08:29 AM

Program is my default mode for that reason. It was also why I could not stay away from Pentax, tho the CaNikons did their best to convince me otherwise.

pingflood · 04-29-2009, 10:22 AM

Originally posted by MrApollinax

No, in program the camera controls both Shutter speed and Aperture. At least that is what I have with my K100DS. I sometimes wonder what I'm missing out with the Hyper-Program modes on the K10D and K20D

Most(?) cameras have program shift, where you turn the dial to shift between different aperture/shutter combinations that result in the same exposure.

e.g. if program mode says 1/125 f/8, turning the dial will result in 1/60 f/11, 1/30 f/16, etc.

What I don't understand, and never did understand when using the K20D is this... what the heck is the difference between program shift and hyper program, in practice? Hyper program goes into Av or Tv mode depending on which dial you spin, but you'll still cycle through the same combinations of shutter speed and apertures... in other words, if you have 1/125 f/8 then shutter priority to 1/60 would result in f/11, and aperture priority to f/11 would result in 1/60. So what's really different?

(edit: can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.)

shadowulf · 04-29-2009, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

Most(?) cameras have program shift, where you turn the dial to shift between different aperture/shutter combinations that result in the same exposure.

e.g. if program mode says 1/125 f/8, turning the dial will result in 1/60 f/11, 1/30 f/16, etc.

What I don't understand, and never did understand when using the K20D is this... what the heck is the difference between program shift and hyper program, in practice? Hyper program goes into Av or Tv mode depending on which dial you spin, but you'll still cycle through the same combinations of shutter speed and apertures... in other words, if you have 1/125 f/8 then shutter priority to 1/60 would result in f/11, and aperture priority to f/11 would result in 1/60. So what's really different?

(edit: can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.)

When I asked about this, I received a "deer-in-the-headlights" stare. Also, when lighting changes, the camera acts as if it is in Av or Tv(aperture or shutter speed remains where it was set) until modes are changed or the green button is pressed.
Now this may be in other brands, but apparently not well known amongst the salespeople in the various camera shops I've been in.

And sorry if the "canikon" comment offends you. I was referring to those who think Canon and Nikon are the only two viable choices when buying a camera.

pingflood · 04-29-2009, 10:53 AM

Not really offended, but I think each brand has its own strengths and weaknesses as well as deserve some respect (I do get a little annoyed at N***n and C***n, admittedly.)

As for program shift, all the Canon bodies I've used have it and 99% certain the Nikon ones do too. I know Hyper Program is different and that some people love it but I have never quite understood how it impacts my photography -- clearly I am missing something about it and would like to know!

Philippos · 04-29-2009, 11:11 AM

Originally posted by pingflood

can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.

C'mon man, it's fun!
The "Canikon" doesn't mean EVERY Canon/Nikon owner, just those who buy into these brands without researching other options, and who probably would be happy with an advanced P&S like the G10.
In my head the term Canikon means the ignorant follower and not the demanding and educated pro who NEEDS 1D & D3 class gear.

Most of the "Canikons" are people who think Pentax is some watch making company and Sony & Panasonic are traditional SLR makers...

pingflood · 04-29-2009, 11:22 AM

OK, I think I answered my own question on Hyper Program here... somebody confirm.

In program shift mode (like on my Canons) it'll allow me to flip through the shutter/aperture combinations that will result in the same exposure. Hyper program works the same.

Except, when using Hyper Program, if you go into Av mode via the rear(?) dial it stays in pure Av mode until reset, right? So if lighting changes the aperture stays fixed and the shutter speed moves around? I just tested something on my 1Ds2 and if I use program shift to pick an exposure and then point the lens at something darker/brighter it'll jump back into program mode and I may need to re-shift to get back to the same aperture or shutter speed. Of course, that is with metering only turned on -- with the camera set to lock AE at shutter half-press (which is normally how it's setup for me) it would "freeze" the exposure and not jump around anyway.

Am I getting this right?

shadowulf · 04-29-2009, 11:22 AM

And as I said on another forum, both Pentax and Olympus users are often treated as "red-headed stepchildren" when it comes to photography.
I never cared much for Canon cameras, but if someone gets great shots from one and is comfortable with it, good for them. Same for the other brands as far as I am concerned. Use what you are comfortable with and shoot.

Back to the topic; I am not aware if the program shift on Canon or Nikon allows the aperture or shutter speed to remain "set" when conditions change.
I have heard some Nikons can do something similar, but it requires some form of menu diving. I just prefer the way Pentax implemented it.

edit: Yes, now you are on the right track. I often use it as my default so I can control DoF on a portrait, yet switch to Tv to capture a fast moving subject at the flick of a wheel.

Parallax · 04-29-2009, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

OK, I think I answered my own question on Hyper Program here... somebody confirm.

In program shift mode (like on my Canons) it'll allow me to flip through the shutter/aperture combinations that will result in the same exposure. Hyper program works the same.

Except, when using Hyper Program, if you go into Av mode via the rear(?) dial it stays in pure Av mode until reset, right? So if lighting changes the aperture stays fixed and the shutter speed moves around? I just tested something on my 1Ds2 and if I use program shift to pick an exposure and then point the lens at something darker/brighter it'll jump back into program mode and I may need to re-shift to get back to the same aperture or shutter speed. Of course, that is with metering only turned on -- with the camera set to lock AE at shutter half-press (which is normally how it's setup for me) it would "freeze" the exposure and not jump around anyway.

Am I getting this right?

You are correct but I would add that on the K20 the green button will always take you back to the program line.

F16 · 04-30-2009, 08:28 PM

I don't often use 'Program' modes, I am typically using Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority, depending on which is more critical to the situation, or metered manual. So Program shift and Hyper Program don't often come into play for me. Hyper-manual is a much more useful feature for how I use a camera.

-=JoN=- · 04-30-2009, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by shadowulf

I have heard some Nikons can do something similar, but it requires some form of menu diving. I just prefer the way Pentax implemented it.

.

you can lock shutter and and aperture in M shutter in S and Aperture in A via the menu (shutter and aperture lock)

as far as menu diving...not that bad, as I can create a custom menu on settings I want to change more often that not on my D700...

as far as program shift...nothing on the d700...P is fully auto...
hyper-modes I do miss when i'm on my d700.
most of the time im in Av or in M on both camera's tho, but there are times i wish I had the green button on the Nikon

res3567 · 05-01-2009, 08:06 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

(edit: can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.)

Pentax forum com.

Friendly Pentax Discussion Comunity.

As you can see sometimes it ain't.

Especially towards people who look down on Pentax equipment.

Ignorant Canon and Nikon owners who think what they have is the supreme photographic tool.

I own Canon equipment as well. I am like you. A G3, A75, and an old A2 film camera.

I think they have a great product.

But I learned on a Pentax K1000.

Pentax is and will always be close to my heart for that.

If I ever become a working pro, and Pentax gets its DSLR's up to par, Pentax will be the starter and Canon will be my backup.

04-27-2009, 10:24 AM	#1
HermanLee Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern California, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 729	Pentax PRO Feature that a Pro Photog couldn't find in CaNikon! A Pro Photographer thought of the best camera in the world should be: http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2009/04/25/the-best-camera-in-the-world/ ..and he wants that Pentax feature to be included! Pentax is surely something!

04-29-2009, 11:22 AM	#11
shadowulf Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Western United States Posts: 48	And as I said on another forum, both Pentax and Olympus users are often treated as "red-headed stepchildren" when it comes to photography. I never cared much for Canon cameras, but if someone gets great shots from one and is comfortable with it, good for them. Same for the other brands as far as I am concerned. Use what you are comfortable with and shoot. Back to the topic; I am not aware if the program shift on Canon or Nikon allows the aperture or shutter speed to remain "set" when conditions change. I have heard some Nikons can do something similar, but it requires some form of menu diving. I just prefer the way Pentax implemented it. edit: Yes, now you are on the right track. I often use it as my default so I can control DoF on a portrait, yet switch to Tv to capture a fast moving subject at the flick of a wheel. Last edited by shadowulf; 04-29-2009 at 11:29 AM.

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04-29-2009, 02:13 AM	#2
edumad Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: UK Posts: 167	I'm very surprised... Don't all cameras work like that in Program? I expect manual to be different, but Program, it just seems logical.

04-29-2009, 03:33 AM	#3
MrApollinax Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Minnesota Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,529	No, in program the camera controls both Shutter speed and Aperture. At least that is what I have with my K100DS. I sometimes wonder what I'm missing out with the Hyper-Program modes on the K10D and K20D

04-29-2009, 04:29 AM	#4
creampuff Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Singapore Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,953	Originally posted by MrApollinax No, in program the camera controls both Shutter speed and Aperture. At least that is what I have with my K100DS. I sometimes wonder what I'm missing out with the Hyper-Program modes on the K10D and K20D Simply put... A LOT, speaking as someone who had the K100D and K100D Super, K10D and now K20D.

04-29-2009, 08:29 AM	#5
shadowulf Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Western United States Posts: 48	Program is my default mode for that reason. It was also why I could not stay away from Pentax, tho the CaNikons did their best to convince me otherwise.

04-29-2009, 10:22 AM	#6
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by MrApollinax No, in program the camera controls both Shutter speed and Aperture. At least that is what I have with my K100DS. I sometimes wonder what I'm missing out with the Hyper-Program modes on the K10D and K20D Most(?) cameras have program shift, where you turn the dial to shift between different aperture/shutter combinations that result in the same exposure. e.g. if program mode says 1/125 f/8, turning the dial will result in 1/60 f/11, 1/30 f/16, etc. What I don't understand, and never did understand when using the K20D is this... what the heck is the difference between program shift and hyper program, in practice? Hyper program goes into Av or Tv mode depending on which dial you spin, but you'll still cycle through the same combinations of shutter speed and apertures... in other words, if you have 1/125 f/8 then shutter priority to 1/60 would result in f/11, and aperture priority to f/11 would result in 1/60. So what's really different? (edit: can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.)

04-29-2009, 10:45 AM	#7
shadowulf Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Western United States Posts: 48	Originally posted by pingflood Most(?) cameras have program shift, where you turn the dial to shift between different aperture/shutter combinations that result in the same exposure. e.g. if program mode says 1/125 f/8, turning the dial will result in 1/60 f/11, 1/30 f/16, etc. What I don't understand, and never did understand when using the K20D is this... what the heck is the difference between program shift and hyper program, in practice? Hyper program goes into Av or Tv mode depending on which dial you spin, but you'll still cycle through the same combinations of shutter speed and apertures... in other words, if you have 1/125 f/8 then shutter priority to 1/60 would result in f/11, and aperture priority to f/11 would result in 1/60. So what's really different? (edit: can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.) When I asked about this, I received a "deer-in-the-headlights" stare. Also, when lighting changes, the camera acts as if it is in Av or Tv(aperture or shutter speed remains where it was set) until modes are changed or the green button is pressed. Now this may be in other brands, but apparently not well known amongst the salespeople in the various camera shops I've been in. And sorry if the "canikon" comment offends you. I was referring to those who think Canon and Nikon are the only two viable choices when buying a camera.

04-29-2009, 10:53 AM	#8
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Not really offended, but I think each brand has its own strengths and weaknesses as well as deserve some respect (I do get a little annoyed at N*n and C*n, admittedly.) As for program shift, all the Canon bodies I've used have it and 99% certain the Nikon ones do too. I know Hyper Program is different and that some people love it but I have never quite understood how it impacts my photography -- clearly I am missing something about it and would like to know!

04-29-2009, 11:11 AM	#9
Philippos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Volos - Greece Posts: 178	Originally posted by pingflood can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that. C'mon man, it's fun! The "Canikon" doesn't mean EVERY Canon/Nikon owner, just those who buy into these brands without researching other options, and who probably would be happy with an advanced P&S like the G10. In my head the term Canikon means the ignorant follower and not the demanding and educated pro who NEEDS 1D & D3 class gear. Most of the "Canikons" are people who think Pentax is some watch making company and Sony & Panasonic are traditional SLR makers...

04-29-2009, 11:22 AM	#10
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	OK, I think I answered my own question on Hyper Program here... somebody confirm. In program shift mode (like on my Canons) it'll allow me to flip through the shutter/aperture combinations that will result in the same exposure. Hyper program works the same. Except, when using Hyper Program, if you go into Av mode via the rear(?) dial it stays in pure Av mode until reset, right? So if lighting changes the aperture stays fixed and the shutter speed moves around? I just tested something on my 1Ds2 and if I use program shift to pick an exposure and then point the lens at something darker/brighter it'll jump back into program mode and I may need to re-shift to get back to the same aperture or shutter speed. Of course, that is with metering only turned on -- with the camera set to lock AE at shutter half-press (which is normally how it's setup for me) it would "freeze" the exposure and not jump around anyway. Am I getting this right?

04-29-2009, 02:53 PM	#12
Parallax Senior Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: South Dakota Photos: Gallery Posts: 19,332	Originally posted by pingflood OK, I think I answered my own question on Hyper Program here... somebody confirm. In program shift mode (like on my Canons) it'll allow me to flip through the shutter/aperture combinations that will result in the same exposure. Hyper program works the same. Except, when using Hyper Program, if you go into Av mode via the rear(?) dial it stays in pure Av mode until reset, right? So if lighting changes the aperture stays fixed and the shutter speed moves around? I just tested something on my 1Ds2 and if I use program shift to pick an exposure and then point the lens at something darker/brighter it'll jump back into program mode and I may need to re-shift to get back to the same aperture or shutter speed. Of course, that is with metering only turned on -- with the camera set to lock AE at shutter half-press (which is normally how it's setup for me) it would "freeze" the exposure and not jump around anyway. Am I getting this right? You are correct but I would add that on the K20 the green button will always take you back to the program line.

04-30-2009, 08:28 PM	#13
F16 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: U.S. Posts: 104	I don't often use 'Program' modes, I am typically using Aperture Priority or Shutter Priority, depending on which is more critical to the situation, or metered manual. So Program shift and Hyper Program don't often come into play for me. Hyper-manual is a much more useful feature for how I use a camera.

04-30-2009, 10:11 PM	#14
-=JoN=- Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 999	Originally posted by shadowulf I have heard some Nikons can do something similar, but it requires some form of menu diving. I just prefer the way Pentax implemented it. . you can lock shutter and and aperture in M shutter in S and Aperture in A via the menu (shutter and aperture lock) as far as menu diving...not that bad, as I can create a custom menu on settings I want to change more often that not on my D700... as far as program shift...nothing on the d700...P is fully auto... hyper-modes I do miss when i'm on my d700. most of the time im in Av or in M on both camera's tho, but there are times i wish I had the green button on the Nikon

05-01-2009, 08:06 PM	#15
res3567 Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Houston Tx. Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,876	Originally posted by pingflood (edit: can we stop this 'Canikon' thing? There are significant differences between the two brands and camera lines, and nobody refers to 'Penlympus' or something like that.) Pentax forum com. Friendly Pentax Discussion Comunity. As you can see sometimes it ain't. Especially towards people who look down on Pentax equipment. Ignorant Canon and Nikon owners who think what they have is the supreme photographic tool. I own Canon equipment as well. I am like you. A G3, A75, and an old A2 film camera. I think they have a great product. But I learned on a Pentax K1000. Pentax is and will always be close to my heart for that. If I ever become a working pro, and Pentax gets its DSLR's up to par, Pentax will be the starter and Canon will be my backup.