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05-11-2009, 08:15 AM   #31
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I don't see any real problem with the Green Button underexposure as it consistently underexposes.

I take this into account then adjust aperture or shutter speed accordingly. This is the nature of shooting manually.

05-11-2009, 08:31 AM   #32
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Can you add just +EV compensation when shooting manually ? I have EV bracketing, but by default, i end up with -/0/+ , so always end up with 2/3rds more shots than is necessary

Last edited by Squier; 05-11-2009 at 08:48 AM.
05-11-2009, 09:00 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by 5teve Quote
Hi Canada

I had quite high hopes for your method, so eagerly rushed home tonight and tried it. if im not mistaken its using the optical preview while holding the preview lever? this shuts the lens down, shows the meter and with your fifth hand allows you to set the exposure correctly by altering the shutter?
Actually, I use the middle finger on my right hand to spin the front e-dial to change the shutter speed. It would actually be easier to spin the rear dial with my thumb, but that's not where the shutter speed is.
QuoteQuote:
well comparing to the green button im not getting much in the way of differing results in controlled condition, it may well be different in the real world so i'll try it and time will tell.
You will get the same results unless your 30 year old 400 mm lens stops down too slowly. The first few stops are ok, but then the green button shutter speeds start to fall out of whack - too high. The green button does a momentary stop down that is too short for my 400 with an extender on the back.
QuoteQuote:
interesting that you say about the lens stopping down too slowly and the metering happening too quickly.. its a thought that crossed my mind, however according to the manual all manual lens default the camera to centre weighted metering with the option to choose spot. therefore as the exposure would be calculated behind my diagonally split prism by the camera the prism blacking out would cause over exposure.

all well and good.. except i get a variation of over and under exposure. its even been happing in real use situation on my sigma lens's!

im sure its something that can be fixed via firmware... isnt it?

Thanks

Steve
I'm afraid not. The bright treatment of the standard focusing screens for the K10 and K20 are the problem. The LL-60 screen fixes the problem perfectly. It took a while for the forum to convince me before I finally decided to spring for one, but I am very happy with it. All my metering is now perfect, with the noted exception for my 400 specifically. My M 100 macro works perfectly with the green button.

I emphasize that it is my 400 that has problems. The lens has had heavy use including before I bought it, and that is the biggest part of the problem. The old girl is worn out, but I love her anyway.
05-11-2009, 09:06 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
I don't see any real problem with the Green Button underexposure as it consistently underexposes.

I take this into account then adjust aperture or shutter speed accordingly. This is the nature of shooting manually.
You are lucky if it does. With my K10 and most others on these forums, the exposure is not consistently under or over. They are under at one end of the aperture scale and over at the other, with a stop or two between that meter accurately using the K10/20 standard focusing screens.

05-11-2009, 10:30 AM   #35
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just to help people understand the exposure issue (at least as I find it with my K10D, I have attached the following link. It's one thing if you are using a lens slower than F5.6 because it always over exposes, but just try and cope with an F1.4 lens. What a mess

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/241716-post69.html
05-11-2009, 11:03 AM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Squier Quote
Thats a nice report on the LL-60, because its still on my purchase list along witht the split prism thats in the post.
Seems to want to make your choice and cross the other off the list - or do you really see yourself owning both screens and switching between them like you'd switch lenses?
05-11-2009, 11:06 AM   #37
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I'll try both and keep the one thats suit me best.
05-11-2009, 03:35 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwcetus Quote
Well, actually, the ~correct~ answer to the question "Should K20D overexpose with M lenses?" is ~NO~! Unfortunately, due to the crippled K-mount, the answer to the question "Does the K20D overexpose with M lenses (or K lenses)?" is indeed YES. :-(
QuoteOriginally posted by Rico Quote
I don't see any real problem with the Green Button underexposure as it consistently underexposes. I take this into account then adjust aperture or shutter speed accordingly. This is the nature of shooting manually.
I only wish it ~were~ consistent - it is not. The overexposure is not "linear", in the sense that I'd have to more or less make an exposure compensation curve for each aperture of each K and M lens I have. This could be done, of course, but my original point is that I should not have to. :-(

05-11-2009, 09:03 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by fwcetus Quote
I only wish it ~were~ consistent - it is not. The overexposure is not "linear", in the sense that I'd have to more or less make an exposure compensation curve for each aperture of each K and M lens I have. This could be done, of course, but my original point is that I should not have to. :-(
You are absolutely correct. The exposure error is not the same at each f/stop. My original procedure was to meter at the accurate stop, and then shift the aperture and shutter speed to the equivalent exposure at the aperture I wanted to use. What I have found with the LL-60 is that the exposure is very close to perfect at every f/stop, and I no longer need that tedious step, thank Heaven.
05-11-2009, 09:24 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by Canada_Rockies Quote
I emphasize that it is my 400 that has problems. The lens has had heavy use including before I bought it, and that is the biggest part of the problem. The old girl is worn out, but I love her anyway.

Have you thought about cleaning the aperture blades? One of my old lenses was slow to stop down due to oil seepage on the blades. An hour or so of fumbling around to get the thing apart, then swabbing the blades with lighter fluid, and it was snappy as new again...
05-11-2009, 11:03 PM   #41
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Squier : having tried the chinese version of the split screen (made from K1000), I can tell you it behaves just like the original focus screen (thus, badly with stop-down lenses).

I couldn't retrieve enough info about Katzeyes (and they are waaaay to expensive for me!)...
I heard that some screens available from FocusScreens.com do behave better than the original focus screen.

I've made one myself from a MZ-M (ZX-M) focus screen (easily available as spare parts from Pentax itself), and the result was quite satisfying... Exposure was quite good until f/16, where it started overexposing by 2EV.
But even with this problem, it was pretty easy : no comp until f/16, then -2ev for anything below f/16...
I gave it to my brother, who did not experience this problem, so it may be lens-related...

Now, for the non-A PK lenses, a "quick and dirty" trick is to drill a second locking hole, this way the lens will lock "sideway" into the mount, and the lens will behave just like a m42... No more need to push the little green button! Yeah, ok, the viewfinder now darkens when you change the aperture, welcome back to the photo stone age where you focus, stop-down, then shoot, but it's functionnal for portraits.
And (that's the best part!) it's still fully fonctionnal on your film SLR (and fully non-fonctionnal on your DSLR), as you just have to lock it using the original locking hole!
05-12-2009, 02:53 AM   #42
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I too think this is very lens dependend. I have no problem with my Helios 44K-4 - it meters fine from f2 to f16, but my Pentax-branded manual lenses all have some kind of issue, the otherwise wonderful 28, f3.5 being the worst, only metering OK wide open.
05-12-2009, 03:56 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by dlacouture Quote
Squier : having tried the chinese version of the split screen (made from K1000), I can tell you it behaves just like the original focus screen (thus, badly with stop-down lenses).

I couldn't retrieve enough info about Katzeyes (and they are waaaay to expensive for me!)...
I heard that some screens available from FocusScreens.com do behave better than the original focus screen.

I've made one myself from a MZ-M (ZX-M) focus screen (easily available as spare parts from Pentax itself), and the result was quite satisfying... Exposure was quite good until f/16, where it started overexposing by 2EV.
But even with this problem, it was pretty easy : no comp until f/16, then -2ev for anything below f/16...
I gave it to my brother, who did not experience this problem, so it may be lens-related...

Now, for the non-A PK lenses, a "quick and dirty" trick is to drill a second locking hole, this way the lens will lock "sideway" into the mount, and the lens will behave just like a m42... No more need to push the little green button! Yeah, ok, the viewfinder now darkens when you change the aperture, welcome back to the photo stone age where you focus, stop-down, then shoot, but it's functionnal for portraits.
And (that's the best part!) it's still fully fonctionnal on your film SLR (and fully non-fonctionnal on your DSLR), as you just have to lock it using the original locking hole!

Time will tell if the korean Focusing.com screen is any better than the chinese versions. I wasnt going to buy a Katz screen at their prices, to find out they're not what i wanted.

Green button metering does not bother me at all, so i wouldnt be messing around drilling holes, but what i want to know is how to add only plus or only minus EV comp. I only seem to be able to bracket rather than set under or over EV comp.
05-12-2009, 06:14 AM   #44
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QuoteOriginally posted by Squier Quote
Time will tell if the korean Focusing.com screen is any better than the chinese versions. I wasnt going to buy a Katz screen at their prices, to find out they're not what i wanted.

Green button metering does not bother me at all, so i wouldnt be messing around drilling holes, but what i want to know is how to add only plus or only minus EV comp. I only seem to be able to bracket rather than set under or over EV comp.
I have to agree with the chineese version, mine from jinfinance is perhaps even worse than the K10D screen, at least with spot metering (which is not stricltly fair) because the metering is looking at the split image.

But, the split image is so nice to work with (especially the diagonal version I have) that I just resort back to my old metering method. Use Manual mode, Pick a grey surface (sidewalk, road, brick wall etc...) meter from that surface and take test shots adjusting exposure until you have the histogram where you want it, and shoot, checking occasionally the histogram, because you may not notice the light changing.

If you want spot metering, then use the *istD screen, at the loss of split image, it appears you can have one or the other but not both.
05-12-2009, 06:27 AM   #45
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I figure, as reported here by many, that the slower aps will cause trouble with a split image, so may end up with just an *ist screen. Once i've tried both, it will be a just a matter of what i can or cant live with, when using either of those.

Going back to something now, that i dont seem to be getting any answers on ..

QuoteOriginally posted by Squier Quote
Can you add just +EV compensation when shooting manually ? I have EV bracketing, but by default, i end up with -/0/+ , so always end up with 2/3rds more shots than is necessary
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