[stevebrot]

Steve I stand corrected, I was tired last night posting.That was indeed not a 100% crop.Here is the true 100% crop.These are done on the consumer Epson 4990 scanner.The tango drum scans from WCI are always much better sharpness and DR wise, but they ain't cheap.

Still, a very impressive image. (I was wondering what happened to the grain! Now I see it...)

Steve

[HermanLee]

Yeah that would be my C-1.I have two actually, and shoot em on a big Ries A-100 2 tripod.I send the negs out these days to West Coast imaging for drum scanning, and the resolution just kills any dslr I've ever used.Of course my Pentax dslr's kill the C-1's for convenience Here's a 100% crop from a bushel of sunflowers on Ilford Fp4+ souped in PMK

This is amazing detail.
8x10, huh? So is it like a slide film?

[Wheatfield]

That looks like a Calumet C-1. Lots of people still use large format cameras (I have one as can be seen in my sig). They're not just for collectors, they're actually still the supreme rulers when it come to ultimate resolution. Plus, they're fun.

And you can do cool things to customize them....

[cloudswimmer]

Still, a very impressive image. (I was wondering what happened to the grain! Now I see it...)

Steve

Thanks Steve.Yeah if I wet scan it or send it out for a drum scan it would be a lot cleaner.But I usually don't do crops that tight

Herman, that is Ilford FP4+ B&W negative film.Fuji still makes 8x10 slide film as well, Velvia and Provia.

[cloudswimmer]

And you can do cool things to customize them....

Thats an interesting setup Wheatfield, is that yours?Looks like a Tachihara with a 35mm body on the back.I've been eyeing out this setup to use with my K10D and Shen-Hao 4x5

CameraFusion SB01

[Confused]

That contraption looks suspiciously like the rumoured new light-weight K7 to me.....
Are you absolutely sure you haven't inadvertently broken the terms of Pentax's NDA agreement ?

Reminds me a bit of this:

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.gandolficameras.com/home_page.html&ei...3VpU-CgTjyLeZQ

Best regards
Richard

[Wheatfield]

Thats an interesting setup Wheatfield, is that yours?Looks like a Tachihara with a 35mm body on the back.I've been eyeing out this setup to use with my K10D and Shen-Hao 4x5

CameraFusion SB01

Precisely. It's a Tachihara with an LX on the back.
It actually takes pictures too.

[pingflood]

This is amazing detail.
8x10, huh? So is it like a slide film?

The film he mentioned is traditional b/w negative film. Slide film doesn't give you a lot of dynamic range, while b/w negatives developed right can have an enormous range and gorgeous tonality.

If you're curious about large format, be aware that you can get into it for under $200 these days.

[robgo2]

Recently I got to play with a Nikon D700 and a Canon 5DM2 in the store when originally I was just going to test a DA*50-135.

I asked the salesman to put on a prime glass for D700 and he put on an 85mm/1.8.
My K20D has FA 43 Ltd on it.
Both camera set to manual mode, no flash, with f/2 and ISO 3200 because D700 has no Shake Reduction ...go Pentax!

Now let me get this straight. You set both the K20D and the D700 to ISO 3200, because the D700 has no SR, and you did not want to place it at a disadvantage. And then you found that the latter camera has cleaner images with better DR, as best you could judge from looking at LCD monitors on the cameras themselves. This strikes me as having set the K20D to compete on its weakest terms and the D700 on its strongest. But since Pentax's in-camera SR provides 2-3 stops of hand holdability, it would have been reasonable to set its ISO at 800 to 400, in which case the noise and DR differences might not have been so great. At the same time, setting the D700 to the same lower ISOs might have revealed considerable camera shake, if the shutter speeds were sufficiently slow.

One way to conceptualize all of this is that the cameras have different strategies for handling low light situations: The Nikon uses very clean high ISO, and the Pentax uses image stabilization which allows lower ISO and slower shutter speeds. It is possible to buy image stabilized lenses for the Nikon, but they are exceedingly expensive.

Rob

[distudio]

One way to conceptualize all of this is that the cameras have different strategies for handling low light situations: The Nikon uses very clean high ISO, and the Pentax uses image stabilization which allows lower ISO and slower shutter speeds. It is possible to buy image stabilized lenses for the Nikon, but they are exceedingly expensive..

I think the point is that SR is of course no direct substitute for faster shutter speeds (knowing that I have a less expensive system doesn't make me feel better about not getting the shot). The great thing about the Nikon 700 (regardless of price) is that you can have a faster shutter speed and SR (if you can afford it). As Pentax users we can only drool.

[Andi Lo]

Out of curiosity... is clean high ISO (6400) impossible to achieve with APS-C or is this just limitations of current technology? I'm sincerely hoping that K7 would break the ground with high ISO but it seems unlikely.

[distudio]

Out of curiosity... is clean high ISO (6400) impossible to achieve with APS-C or is this just limitations of current technology? I'm sincerely hoping that K7 would break the ground with high ISO but it seems unlikely.

At high ISO it is literally down to the number of photons that can be collected vs the accumulated charge that they create in the photo sensor well during the given integration time. It's a physical limitation which relates to the photo site size. I believe that conversion efficiency is such that there will be little gain in sensitivity forthcoming to APS-C DSLR users (using silicon capture devices) without somehow distorting the laws of physics.

[Duplo]

Out of curiosity... is clean high ISO (6400) impossible to achieve with APS-C or is this just limitations of current technology? I'm sincerely hoping that K7 would break the ground with high ISO but it seems unlikely.

Even the D3 is not "clean" at ISO 6400. It can do excellent looking 20x30cm prints
and with a little exposure care even double spreads, but it is not "clean"
I have none of my event and sports shots publicly available online thus no way to show you how it performs right now, but I am working on getting some samples available. I regularly shoot ISO 6400 for those, sometimes even pushed 1-2 stop in post.
However I am able to do long exposure ISO 1600 shots that prints perfectly in 40x60cm.

[Wheatfield]

I think the point is that SR is of course no direct substitute for faster shutter speeds (knowing that I have a less expensive system doesn't make me feel better about not getting the shot). The great thing about the Nikon 700 (regardless of price) is that you can have a faster shutter speed and SR (if you can afford it). As Pentax users we can only drool.

It really doesn't make me feel better when the guy beside me has gotten the shot and my camera is still fighting with focus, much less getting a usable shutter speed.
Really people. if your subject is moving, it doesn't matter how good shake reduction is, a slow shutter speed is not going to get the picture for you.

[pingflood]

It really doesn't make me feel better when the guy beside me has gotten the shot and my camera is still fighting with focus, much less getting a usable shutter speed.
Really people. if your subject is moving, it doesn't matter how good shake reduction is, a slow shutter speed is not going to get the picture for you.

Very true. I was really concerned about not having IS in the 400/5.6 I bought, but realized not long after that most of my subjects are moving anyway so IS would just have made for a well stabilized background with a blurry subject.