K20D vs D700?

Jewelltrail · 05-11-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Marc Sabatella: I think one can use the analogy quite effectively to answer the original question:

Q: why is D700 noise better than K20 noise
A: same reason a Ferrari performs better than Kia

This doesn't seem idiotic in the least to me - it quite elegantly captures an important and relevant aspect of the full technical explanation.

Analogical thinking is used on SAT, LSAT, and IQ tests to name but a few. It is a fantastic teaching & testing tool, no doubt about it. We must bear in mind, however, analogical thinking is a higher form of brain processing, one which separates man from the brutes. This is why you do not see it used to train, say, an ape. With the ape, a more direct approach is needed; one must approach the ape, at the ape's level.

What we can do is to re-work the original question, so that it answers itself:

How come the Nikon Coolpix S60 (cost=$250) ISO performance is so miserable in comparison to the Pentax K20d?

BTW, my re-working the question is meant only for one member of our audience here--it is not meant for the OP. I only do this because it is clear that all the well-intentioned work of so many good people has not been able to penetrate the head stronged, pathetic, and troubled soul.

distudio · 05-11-2009, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by Jewelltrail

What we can do is to re-work the original question, so that it answers itself:

How come the Nikon Coolpix S60 (cost=$250) ISO performance is so miserable in comparison to the Pentax K20d?

BTW, my re-working the question is meant only for one member of our audience here--it is not meant for the OP. I only do this because it is clear that all the well-intentioned work of so many good people has not been able to penetrate the head stronged, pathetic, and troubled soul.

If the Nikon S60 in your example were diamond encrusted and cost $100k would it then have better ISO performance than the K20D? ;-)

kenyee · 05-12-2009, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by Jewelltrail

We must bear in mind, however, analogical thinking is a higher form of brain processing

LOL. I always thought it was for people who don't understand things technically enough to be able to answer

Wheatfield · 05-12-2009, 10:17 AM

Originally posted by Marc Sabatella

True. Fortunately, that question was already answered, as you've noted. The analogies help put that technical answer in a little perspective (and it helps answer the logical next question - why doesn't the K20D have a bigger sensor too?). If it's not perspective you personally find useful, or a question you wanted to hear the answer too, fine - feel free to ignore any further discussion of the topic. Please.

No problem. Since I drive a truck, the stupid analogies are no more relevent to me than they are to the OP's question.

Wheatfield · 05-12-2009, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by kenyee

LOL. I always thought it was for people who don't understand things technically enough to be able to answer

Bingo.
Your canoe is in the mail.

Jewelltrail · 05-12-2009, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Wheatfield: Since I drive a truck, .......

Is it a full framed truck?

Jewelltrail · 05-12-2009, 10:50 PM

Here is an interesting article, from a Nikonian point of view, though of no less utility for a Pentaxian.

Full frame and DX sized sensors compared (2) - Nikonians Review Article

kenyee · 05-13-2009, 06:54 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Your canoe is in the mail.

lol. Can I have a SOT yak instead? It'd be a lot more useful for fishing than a canoe. What, what does this have to do w/ the OP's question?

Wheatfield · 05-13-2009, 07:06 AM

Originally posted by kenyee

lol. Can I have a SOT yak instead? It'd be a lot more useful for fishing than a canoe. What, what does this have to do w/ the OP's question?

Well it's like this...
Yer K20 is like a canoe.
The D700 is like a SOT yak......

Or something.

stevebrot · 05-13-2009, 08:40 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Well it's like this...
Yer K20 is like a canoe.
The D700 is like a SOT yak......

Or something.

Gosh! I thought the K20D was a bicycle and the D700 was a fish!

Steve

(A very expensive koi-type fish?)

kenyee · 05-13-2009, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Yer K20 is like a canoe.
The D700 is like a SOT yak......

Why are we comparing a $1600 Hobie yak w/ a $200 canoe??? And what makes a Hobie better for fishing?

Wheatfield · 05-13-2009, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by kenyee

Why are we comparing a $1600 Hobie yak w/ a $200 canoe??? And what makes a Hobie better for fishing?

Less noise.
It doesn't scare the fish.
Oh yes, it's faster too.

HermanLee · 05-13-2009, 09:52 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

Gosh! I thought the K20D was a bicycle and the D700 was a fish!

Steve

(A very expensive koi-type fish?)

The bike can carry the fish
but the fish can't carry the bike

HermanLee · 05-13-2009, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Jewelltrail

Here is an interesting article, from a Nikonian point of view, though of no less utility for a Pentaxian.

Full frame and DX sized sensors compared (2) - Nikonians Review Article

Very good article, Jewelltrail.
Thanks for the informative article.

pingflood · 05-13-2009, 10:34 AM

" When that happens I'm sure Nikon will come out with a full-frame sensor, and, as usual, will continue to overstep the competition."

Sour grapes? Naww.

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05-11-2009, 09:33 PM	#91
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Quote: Marc Sabatella: I think one can use the analogy quite effectively to answer the original question: Q: why is D700 noise better than K20 noise A: same reason a Ferrari performs better than Kia This doesn't seem idiotic in the least to me - it quite elegantly captures an important and relevant aspect of the full technical explanation. Analogical thinking is used on SAT, LSAT, and IQ tests to name but a few. It is a fantastic teaching & testing tool, no doubt about it. We must bear in mind, however, analogical thinking is a higher form of brain processing, one which separates man from the brutes. This is why you do not see it used to train, say, an ape. With the ape, a more direct approach is needed; one must approach the ape, at the ape's level. What we can do is to re-work the original question, so that it answers itself: *How come the Nikon Coolpix S60 (cost=$250)* ISO performance is so miserable in comparison to the Pentax K20d?** BTW, my re-working the question is meant only for one member of our audience here--it is not meant for the OP. I only do this because it is clear that all the well-intentioned work of so many good people has not been able to penetrate the head stronged, pathetic, and troubled soul.

05-11-2009, 09:42 PM	#92
distudio Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Sydney Photos: Albums Posts: 450	Originally posted by Jewelltrail What we can do is to re-work the original question, so that it answers itself: *How come the Nikon Coolpix S60 (cost=$250)* ISO performance is so miserable in comparison to the Pentax K20d?** BTW, my re-working the question is meant only for one member of our audience here--it is not meant for the OP. I only do this because it is clear that all the well-intentioned work of so many good people has not been able to penetrate the head stronged, pathetic, and troubled soul. If the Nikon S60 in your example were diamond encrusted and cost $100k would it then have better ISO performance than the K20D? ;-)

05-12-2009, 06:13 AM	#93
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by Jewelltrail We must bear in mind, however, analogical thinking is a higher form of brain processing LOL. I always thought it was for people who don't understand things technically enough to be able to answer

05-12-2009, 10:17 AM	#94
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by Marc Sabatella True. Fortunately, that question was already answered, as you've noted. The analogies help put that technical answer in a little perspective (and it helps answer the logical next question - why doesn't the K20D have a bigger sensor too?). If it's not perspective you personally find useful, or a question you wanted to hear the answer too, fine - feel free to ignore any further discussion of the topic. Please. No problem. Since I drive a truck, the stupid analogies are no more relevent to me than they are to the OP's question.

05-12-2009, 10:18 AM	#95
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by kenyee LOL. I always thought it was for people who don't understand things technically enough to be able to answer Bingo. Your canoe is in the mail.

05-12-2009, 09:05 PM	#96
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Quote: Wheatfield: Since I drive a truck, ....... Is it a full framed truck?

05-12-2009, 10:50 PM	#97
Jewelltrail Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Rhode Island Photos: Albums Posts: 4,180	Here is an interesting article, from a Nikonian point of view, though of no less utility for a Pentaxian. Full frame and DX sized sensors compared (2) - Nikonians Review Article

05-13-2009, 06:54 AM	#98
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by Wheatfield Your canoe is in the mail. lol. Can I have a SOT yak instead? It'd be a lot more useful for fishing than a canoe. What, what does this have to do w/ the OP's question?

05-13-2009, 07:06 AM	#99
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by kenyee lol. Can I have a SOT yak instead? It'd be a lot more useful for fishing than a canoe. What, what does this have to do w/ the OP's question? Well it's like this... Yer K20 is like a canoe. The D700 is like a SOT yak...... Or something.

05-13-2009, 08:40 AM	#100
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by Wheatfield Well it's like this... Yer K20 is like a canoe. The D700 is like a SOT yak...... Or something. Gosh! I thought the K20D was a bicycle and the D700 was a fish! Steve (A very expensive koi-type fish?)

05-13-2009, 09:05 AM	#101
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Originally posted by Wheatfield Yer K20 is like a canoe. The D700 is like a SOT yak...... Why are we comparing a $1600 Hobie yak w/ a $200 canoe??? And what makes a Hobie better for fishing?

05-13-2009, 09:24 AM	#102
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,987	Originally posted by kenyee Why are we comparing a $1600 Hobie yak w/ a $200 canoe??? And what makes a Hobie better for fishing? Less noise. It doesn't scare the fish. Oh yes, it's faster too.

05-13-2009, 09:52 AM	#103
HermanLee Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern California, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 729 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot Gosh! I thought the K20D was a bicycle and the D700 was a fish! Steve (A very expensive koi-type fish?) The bike can carry the fish but the fish can't carry the bike

05-13-2009, 09:57 AM	#104
HermanLee Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Southern California, USA Photos: Gallery Posts: 729 Original Poster	Originally posted by Jewelltrail Here is an interesting article, from a Nikonian point of view, though of no less utility for a Pentaxian. Full frame and DX sized sensors compared (2) - Nikonians Review Article Very good article, Jewelltrail. Thanks for the informative article.

05-13-2009, 10:34 AM	#105
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	" When that happens I'm sure Nikon will come out with a full-frame sensor, and, as usual, will continue to overstep the competition." Sour grapes? Naww.