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04-18-2007, 05:03 PM   #1
Trub
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Shooting B&W

Can I, with my K10D, shoot in black and white with out having to Photoshop it? I thought I saw a setting in my menu somewhere, but I can't find it.

04-18-2007, 05:14 PM   #2
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You can use the "Digital Filter" under the "Playback" menu to convert JPGs to black and white. Filters can't be used on RAW images.
04-18-2007, 05:20 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by bdavis Quote
You can use the "Digital Filter" under the "Playback" menu to convert JPGs to black and white. Filters can't be used on RAW images.
Great, I'm in a Photojournalism class and we need to shoot jpg and B&W.

Thanks!
04-18-2007, 05:52 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Trub Quote
Can I, with my K10D, shoot in black and white with out having to Photoshop it? I thought I saw a setting in my menu somewhere, but I can't find it.
You cannot SHOOT in black and white (or grayscale). You can convert in the camera to JPEG and/or grayscale - but you're shooting Raw and color willy-nilly. It's rather easier simply to shoot Raw and get everything you're capable of getting in the way of info about the image, and then batch convert your photos in post-processing. You do not have to use Photoshop. Every image program I'm familiar with can convert images to grayscale.

Will

04-18-2007, 09:41 PM   #5
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The fact that most image apps have B&W conversion is part of why DSLRs don't have B&W modes in them. Well, some of the lower end one's do, but not many.
04-18-2007, 09:52 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by davemdsn Quote
The fact that most image apps have B&W conversion is part of why DSLRs don't have B&W modes in them. Well, some of the lower end one's do, but not many.
Like Nikon D200, D2X, D2Xs ...
04-19-2007, 12:14 AM   #7
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While shooting with the k10d you can shoot RAW, process in camera and then convert to B&W using the filters, if you so like

You can apply a straight grey scale or red blue or green filter conversion.

Last edited by Cideway; 04-19-2007 at 12:17 AM. Reason: added what teh options where.
04-19-2007, 02:12 AM   #8
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I find I'm happier with the results if I process my b&w shots individually by decomposing them in The GIMP and then reassembling the layers with a variety of blend modes.

04-19-2007, 03:44 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
I find I'm happier with the results if I process my b&w shots individually by decomposing them in The GIMP and then reassembling the layers with a variety of blend modes.
Yep, I generally use the CS2 equivalent -- adjusting the grayscale output of the red, green, and blue channels separately using the channel mixer. I find the results are often quite muddy and flat just converting to grayscale using the menu option.
04-19-2007, 04:15 AM   #10
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It looks to me like you can actually choose your rgb blend in-camera with the K10D. (Can someone confirm?) Probably a bit hard to judge the results, but that's a really cool feature over the normal one-stop-desaturate b&w settings.
04-19-2007, 04:28 AM   #11
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You canít blend as you wish, but you can choose one of four filters, BW,R,G,B when creating your bw copy.
04-19-2007, 04:33 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Finn Quote
Yep, I generally use the CS2 equivalent -- adjusting the grayscale output of the red, green, and blue channels separately using the channel mixer. I find the results are often quite muddy and flat just converting to grayscale using the menu option.
I use red for the base layer, then green, then blue. I make the blue invisible, then dial in the green experimenting with various blend modes and percentages, then re-enable the blue and do the same for it. Never seem to use the exact same combinations twice.
04-19-2007, 05:51 AM   #13
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The truth of the matter?

You are shooting in black and white! It's the color that's fictional/made-up. The sensors are all monotone-luminance only. The color (and 2/3 or the image) comes from a combination of filters and mathematics.

Run that by your instructor/mentor; watch smoke pour from their ears!
04-19-2007, 07:00 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
The truth of the matter?

You are shooting in black and white! It's the color that's fictional/made-up. The sensors are all monotone-luminance only. The color (and 2/3 or the image) comes from a combination of filters and mathematics.

Run that by your instructor/mentor; watch smoke pour from their ears!
He's already covered the exact thing you described, in another class. All I needed was to view my pictures in B&W on the body and Beth was able to help me.

Thanks Beth!
04-19-2007, 07:28 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
The truth of the matter?

You are shooting in black and white! It's the color that's fictional/made-up. The sensors are all monotone-luminance only. The color (and 2/3 or the image) comes from a combination of filters and mathematics.
You must have been a joy to have as a student, John. ;-)

I'm not sure this is helpful to the original poster, and I'm not even sure it's technically correct. For most users, the difference between the filters and the photosites themselves is irrelevant- what matters is what information is captured. True, the technology is complicated and there's math involved. But the basic truth is that the camera's sensor always captures information that is responsive to color.

I'm willing to be corrected, but here's my understanding. The individual photosites are filtered so that the information they capture is color-sensitive. To point out that the pixel-level photosite on its own doesn't know the difference between green and blue is interesting from an engineering perspective, but misleading in any other context because it tells only part of the story. The filters are as critically important to the end-result as the photosites in the sensor themselves. And most of us are interested most of the time in the tool as a whole. You might as well say that the olfactory sensors in a man's nose can't tell the difference between his wife's perfume and a gas leak in the kitchen. It's not important that the guy's nose knows the difference. What matters is that the GUY knows the difference.

As I understand it, a digital camera specifically designed for shooting grayscale would not need the Bayer-pattern filters. But we're all stuck with 'em whether we want 'em or not. So in any ordinary English sense of the words, you in fact ARE shooting color willy-nilly, just as you are shooting Raw. You may only want a grayscale JPEG as output, but your camera always starts out getting all the info it needs to write a Raw file with color info. When the camera saves the image as a JPEG, some info that was already gathered is thrown away. When the image file is converted (in camera or on the computer) to grayscale, some info about color patterns is similarly discarded.

So to return to the poster's question, the only real issue is, where do you want to throw this info away and how much control over the process would you like to have? No absolute right or wrong answers to those questions. Most of those with experience seem to prefer to convert to grayscale on their computers, because their software gives them more control over the results. But it may be more convenient to do the conversion in your camera. You have to figure that out for yourself.

Will

Last edited by WMBP; 04-19-2007 at 07:34 AM.
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