[nanok]

No, we just get frustrated by willfull obduracy. Using strong language in no way takes away from the strength of an argument, no matter how much people with weak arguments would like to think it does.

some of the comments here piss me off to no end too, some of those you were referring to, and some others too (including some of yours), however that was uncalled for from you. please take a deep breath, and let's try to keep this civilized and smart, instead of acting like children. make no mistake, i was tempted to reply to both sides (including you specifically ) the same way you did, several times.

your different point of view is appreciated, your temper is not (just my humble opinion)

respectfully,

--
nanok

[Wheatfield]

I beg to differ. Calling people names and using epitaphs not only speaks volumes about your lack of debating skills but your personal integrity.

You don't like my arguments and think they are weak. That is your viewpoint, but instead of putting people down and swearing at them I suggest you refine your debating skills.

I would even go so far as to suggest that you go out and take some photographs.

some of the comments here piss me off to no end too, some of those you were referring to, and some others too (including some of yours), however that was uncalled for from you. please take a deep breath, and let's try to keep this civilized and smart, instead of acting like children. make no mistake, i was tempted to reply to both sides (including you specifically ) the same way you did, several times.

your different point of view is appreciated, your temper is not (just my humble opinion)

respectfully,

--
nanok

Well then both of you stop telling me that what I feel I need in a camera is because I'm not an adept photographer.
You showing that sort of hubris and disrespect and then get all uppity because people lose their temper with you just isn't showing a lot of forward thinking.

If this were a Nikon forum would you be telling D3 owners that they are obviously incompetent photographers because they want (and have) better tools?

For that matter, why do you think wanting better tools is such a bad thing that you insult the people who desire them?

If you want respect, show some yourself.

[nanok]

as i said, please take a deep breath. i am on several counts of the same opinnion as you, so your insults are not only uncalled for, but also misdirected (which shows that you are angry and not paying attention, and i'm sorry about that). however, you insulting me is besides the point, i think there should be no need for insults, at all, please let's just clam down.

[rparmar]

Excellent! Please summarize the other long-winded topics in this forum for me - it would save me so much time LOL!

I think I'll go outside and take me some pictures...

Yeah, that's what it's all about. I shot so many last weekend I'm post-processing for days.

i think there should be no need for insults, at all, please let's just clam down.

Or at least clam up. Keeping it civil is a sign of... well, civilisation, for one.

[Arpe]

Here is my point of view, rather late in the thread.

1. You can indeed take action shots with Pentax gear.

2. If money is no object you can get better systems for the job. You'll miss fewer shots, be more accurate and be able to react in more adverse situations.

3. What was good enough 50 years ago is not good enough now.

4. What is good enough for one person is not good enough for another.

5. Better gear can help you take better shots, all else being equal.

6. I believe that the true contemplative spirit of photography can only be experienced by manual focusing with a prime lens.

7. Because I am not an action photographer, not wealthy and because of point 6, I prefer Pentax.

Very good. Except number 6 maybe, is it compulsory to have said spirit? Coz I'm in trouble if it is I think!

[rparmar]

Very good. Except number 6 maybe, is it compulsory to have said spirit? Coz I'm in trouble if it is I think!

It's a personal thing for me. I don't mean everyone has to think the same way. But I get a lot of meditative happiness from an old manual lens. It puts you in touch with the camera and with what you are shooting. Try it and see!

[danielchtong]

No clue if these are fast enough to qualify as action shots. Taken 3 weeks ago




























Daniel

[kkoether]

Awesome shots Daniel! and yes I'd say they would qualify as action.

[res3567]

To sum all of this up simply:

Yes you can shoot fast action with a Pentax DSLR.

The number of keepers, however will be lower than a Canon 1D Mark III.

That camera has a 10fps shooting speed, whch allows the pros to use the machine gun approach(almost like shooting video IMO).

Combine that with an excellent auto focus system and you see why there are the signture grey (or white) L lenses on the sidelines of pro sports (football for me comes to mind).

The camera is slated as a FF model, but the sensor is slightly smaller than the 1D and 5D. (1.3 conversion factor).

This gives the pros an edge with their telephoto lenses.

I wish my K10 and K100 shot with faster fps.

I get irritated when the auto focus on both body hunts (the lens in and out of focus sometines even in bright light).

But Pentax is all I can afford right now and I am not a working pro.

I have compared my K10 to a Canon 30D and it does auto focus faster and has a faster shooting speed.

This is their middle of the line camera which nocks mine down to a Prosumer model (IMO).

The K7 seems promising enough, but based on the unofficial specs, it aint even close to the fps the soon to outdated 1D MKIII.

We will have to wait and see about the autofocus.

I still love my equipment and in would feel quite comfortable along side Canon and Nikon shooters.

Someone else in this forum said that Pentax DSLR's make you think before you shoot.

Working pros sometimes don't have that luxury and a high end DSLR make his or her job that much easier.

[Jewelltrail]

Palmor: Now if anyone's own personal feeling of achievement is gained by doing this as manual as possible that is great, but to say the rest of use don't produce art because we choose to AF our subjects is kind of an insult. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but take the point of view of the rest of us who like to focus our attention to other things then manually focusing.

This is my last post for this thread, and only because I feel impelled to respond to you John. The thread has degenerated into an emotion filled slug-fest. John, you are a contributing member of the Pentax forum community. I have seen a lot of your excellent work and especially like what you do with higher ISO on the K20. Your work benefits greatly from good AF--no doubt. I never said it was not art because you use AF. It is a personal preference of mine to shoot my entire pic manually--that is all it is, a personal preference.

Of course I didn't mean to insult anyone. My original post in this thread was directed at a select few who use this forum as a free means to therapy, furiously bashing the Pentax system, over and over, thread after thread. They have a certain anger they bring to every thread, accompanied by a disrespect for anyone who forces them to think out of their tiny little cell.

I mean to address the mentality, which is never happy, but whines and moans 24/7, instead of learning from others through the sharing experience of this forum. This forum is meant for construction, not deconstruction. These people, forever yearning that if only they had full-frame, or if only they had faster AF, then yes, then they would reach the pinnacle of photography. It wouldn't be so bad, but they have a way of forcefully & violently attacking other respectful members of this community, without conscience as they crash around in here.

So, I agreed with a comment made here that, once upon a time, before auto focus, action shots were done, and done well. The logical correlative of this is that action shots still can be done, without the most advanced auto focus system in the world. My point was/is that the photographer is still the most important variable in this story. I love technology--my job demands this from me, but I use it--it does not use me.

Of course, lighting, composition, anticipation, focusing, and metering all play a key role. They are all integral parts of the synergistic whole; you need all the parts. For example, have you ever seen a good picture which was mis-focused?

Returning to my reason for visiting this thread. There resides a certain naysayer here at the forum. They possess a megalomaniacal vision of a Pentax full frame camera, with perfect AF coming along and think their personal crusade of jamming it down everyone's throats, in every available thread, is going to be the catalyst to making this camera a reality. Apparently, their quixotic day dreaming is so severe that they see them self reaching great status as a photographer once this dream tool, this Full-Frame Pentax, comes along and elevates them to stardom.

Don't get me wrong, tolerance is vital here at the forum, even for megalomaniacs. But tolerance begins to wane fast after witnessing this serial-full-frame dreamer attacking one good person after another. Why in the world, if you are that unhappy with a camera system, would you stick with it and be so miserable about the decision to do so?

[res3567]

Of course I didn't mean to insult anyone. My original post in this thread was directed at a select few who use this forum as a free means to therapy, furiously bashing the Pentax system, over and over, thread after thread. They have a certain anger they bring to every thread, accompanied by a disrespect for anyone who forces them to think out of their tiny little cell.



So, I agreed with a comment made here that, once upon a time, before auto focus, action shots were done, and done well. The logical correlative of this is that action shots still can be done, without the most advanced auto focus system in the world. My point was/is that the photographer is still the most important variable in this story. I love technology--my job demands this from me, but I use it--it does not use me.

I said somewhat the same thing in another loooong thread that may sitll going today which also turned into a fireworks display for breif time.
Was amazed(not shocked) at the responses I got.
I was hesitant at first, but decided to throw out my two cents worth as I did here.

[palmor]

This is my last post for this thread, and only because I feel impelled to respond to you John. The thread has degenerated into an emotion filled slug-fest. John, you are a contributing member of the Pentax forum community. I have seen a lot of your excellent work and especially like what you do with higher ISO on the K20. Your work benefits greatly from good AF--no doubt. I never said it was not art because you use AF. It is a personal preference of mine to shoot my entire pic manually--that is all it is, a personal preference.

Of course I didn't mean to insult anyone. My original post in this thread was directed at a select few who use this forum as a free means to therapy, furiously bashing the Pentax system, over and over, thread after thread. They have a certain anger they bring to every thread, accompanied by a disrespect for anyone who forces them to think out of their tiny little cell.

Thanks for responding Jewelltrail. I was sure you didn't mean it that way and weren't trying to insult anyone. One of the very unfortunate things about forum communication is that you loose the subtlety of the spoken word and 10 people can read imply 10 different ways a person tries to say something.

I think I'm going to stop responding to threads like these. I try (I hope) to respond reasonably to all these AF debates and do my best to not come across as a Pentax basher. But thinking about it more nothing really good comes of it, and I get sucked in with the best of them and I don't ever want to say something (or have someone infer I said something) that I regret later



John

[danielchtong]

Awesome shots Daniel! and yes I'd say they would qualify as action.

Thanks. I am sure that with 5Dmk2 or 700D my images will be around 3 times better. That is for sure.

Since I do not have that kind of money, I am ok for the time now


Daniel