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04-20-2007, 12:08 AM   #1
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Small annoyance.

Anyone else noticed that the RAW button doesnít stick? I mean even if I have selected that the camera should stay in RAW mode until I press the button again. K10d, by the way.
It has happen several times now that I think Iím shooting RAW when I suddenly, to my horror, discover that Iím not.

It seems that as soon as I press the playback button to review a picture, I loose the RAW mode. Is there any rational explanation to this?

04-20-2007, 06:45 AM   #2
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Hi

Page 122 in the K10 user manual should give you some answers.
According to what is written on the bottom of the page the camera should exit the RAW mode after one shot, unless the custom mode is set to RAW+.
04-20-2007, 08:50 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by gussegutt Quote
Hi

Page 122 in the K10 user manual should give you some answers.
According to what is written on the bottom of the page the camera should exit the RAW mode after one shot, unless the custom mode is set to RAW+.
AFAIK, the RAW button of the K10D is supposed to give the user an temporary measure for making RAW pics or RAW + Jpeg pics according to one of the custom functions.

If permanent RAW is required, you're still required to switch to the RAW mode!
04-21-2007, 10:50 AM   #4
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Still, it's a button marked RAW which can be set to toggle RAw ON and OFF. It's just a pitty that the camera turns it off by itself now and then. A well, no biggy, hope they fix it in the next firmware release.

04-21-2007, 11:19 AM   #5
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If it were a button the toggled RAW on and off I would have to remove it with a hot poker, which would kill the weather sealing. I like that shooting in RAW full time is a function that I have to set and if I want to exit it I have to set it. I have pushed the RAW button on accident a few times and ended up with a jpeg next to my RAW. If it had taken me out of RAW mode I would have been furious.
04-21-2007, 11:35 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
Anyone else noticed that the RAW button doesnít stick? I mean even if I have selected that the camera should stay in RAW mode until I press the button again. K10d, by the way.
It has happen several times now that I think Iím shooting RAW when I suddenly, to my horror, discover that Iím not.

It seems that as soon as I press the playback button to review a picture, I loose the RAW mode. Is there any rational explanation to this?
To set the default File Format, press the Menu button . Using the front e-dial rotate until you access page 2/2 of the Rec. mode menu. Using the four-way controller navigate right ► to JEPG, RAW or RAW +. Make your choice and press the OK button twice. That sets the format the camera will be using each time the shutter release button is fully pressed. Most users will prefer leaving the JEPG as default and will shoot the occasional RAW + JEPG by pressing the RAW button. Many professionals shoot RAW files only and can set the camera default to RAW files. You can set the RAW button to where pressing it shoots RAW or RAW+ JEPG once and returns to the default setting or you can set it to where pressing it will shoot RAW + JEPG until you press it again to return to the default format. Why not shooting RAW + JEPG all the time?

Y.Bourque
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04-22-2007, 08:54 AM   #7
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JPEG is good enough for most of my pictures, since frankly they are not all wall hangers. The quality of the JPEGs are pretty good at the highest setting, one really have to do some serious pixel diving to spot any compression artefacts at all. So unless the scene calls for that extra dynamic range, or one hopes there is a wall hanger within grasp, one donít need to shoot RAW. At least that is my current belief.

But when I do want to shoot RAW, hitting the RAW button is convenient. And I want it to continue to shoot RAW until I press the RAW button again. The option exists and it sounds perfect. The irritating bit is that it stops shooting RAW without me telling it to do so, for instance it stops when pressing the playback button. ah well.
04-22-2007, 11:42 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gimbal Quote
JPEG is good enough for most of my pictures, since frankly they are not all wall hangers. The quality of the JPEGs are pretty good at the highest setting, one really have to do some serious pixel diving to spot any compression artefacts at all. So unless the scene calls for that extra dynamic range, or one hopes there is a wall hanger within grasp, one donít need to shoot RAW. At least that is my current belief.
I used to think this way, too. I was wrong. Let's revisit this old subject - as it's obviously a fresh one for many users. Let me say right up front: I'm not a Raw evangelist. I don't give a darn whether anybody shoots in Raw or JPEG or TIFF.

That said, let me start by pointing out that you are shooting Raw always and everywhere, whether you want to or not. Raw data is simply what the camera sensor "sees", and the only control you have over what the camera sees is exercised when you change where the camera is pointing, and to a lesser extent, when you control the focal length and focus. What the settings in the camera's menu allow you to do is control whether this Raw data is converted to JPEG right there in the camera - using the limited range of options built into the camera - or whether this conversion will be postponed until you have moved the image files off the camera and on to your computer. And whenever you do the conversion - whether you convert to JPEG in-camera or on the computer - you're throwing away a huge amount of information about the original picture. But if you convert on the computer and then decide you don't like the resulting JPEG, you still have the Raw original to return to. If you convert to JPEG in the camera and don't save the Raw file, too, well, you're stuck with what you can do with a JPEG.

There are only three reasons NOT to shoot Raw.

1. Because Raw files are bigger than JPEG files, if you save Raw files in your camera, you'll get far fewer photo files on your storage card.

2. Because saving the Raw data means writing everything the camera's sensor "sees" while converting to JPEG involves throwing a lot of info away, saving Raw images is slower than converting and saving JPEGs. If you are guessing that the Raw to JPEG conversion process occurs VERY quickly, you are right, it does. Converting the data uses the camera's processor, which is extremely fast. Writing files to disk, on the other hand, is always a relatively slow process. Bottom line here is, if you want to shoot in continuous mode, in many cameras, you'll be able to shoot more photos in a row if you are saving them as JPEGs than if you're saving them as Raw files. (The limiting factor here is the camera's buffer.)

3. If you save Raw files in the camera, you will in most cases want to convert them to JPEGs (or TIFFs) later, on your computer. Now, once upon a time, this process of converting Raw files involved a special step and was undeniably an extra hassle. That is simply no longer the case, however. Most good image-editing/image-management programs now import Raw files without prior conversion and allow you to edit the images non-destructively, also without conversion. The Raw-to-JPEG conversion step occurs only when you export images, which is something you probably used to do anyway. What I do with my Raw files in Lightroom is nearly identical to what I used to do with my JPEGs in Picasa - except that in Lightroom I have more options, more control, and more data to work with in the first place. NOTE: Not all Raw formats are supported by all image-management programs, and if your preferred software doesn't support your camera's format, well, then you either need to get a new camera, get new software, or use an old-fashioned conversion step.

In short, reason #3 isn't much of a reason any more, unless your software doesn't support your camera's Raw format. The complaint that Raw is harder than JPEG remains true, but the difference is trivial. Folks who are convinced by this reason not to use Raw, either don't know anything about what's involved in processing Raw images (and therefore don't know how easy it's become) or they're looking for an excuse to keep doing what they're familiar with.

Reason #2 isn't much of a reason, either - unless burst or continuous-mode shooting is really important to you. If it is, well, I can understand that.

Reason #1 is really the only reason with comprehensive validity. Raw files ARE bigger. Generally they're a LOT bigger. This matters mainly when you go to store your files - at least if you shoot a lot of pictures. If you shoot relatively few pictures per week or per month, then this reason loses its force, and I dare say that most amateur photographers don't shoot enough pictures for storage to become a huge issue. If storage were really all that big a deal to amateurs, they wouldn't be buying 10 MP cameras - to shoot JPEG files! A top-quality JPEG isn't as big a file as the unconverted original RAw file, but it's still a big file. Anyway, if you do shoot a lot of photos, you're going to need an intelligent way to store the files. If you shoot Raw, you'll need more storage than if you shoot/save JPEG.

Note that none of these problems with Raw has anything to do with image quality. The arguments based on image quality all favor Raw.

Will

04-22-2007, 02:00 PM   #9
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Thanks for the long answer, and I’m aware of all this, but there is one other issue to consider before deciding on whether to save RAW data or not. Do I need the extra information in the RAW data?

Sometimes yes. But always, no.

But you’re right, the biggest issue is space.

Since most printers nor monitors can produce the amount of colors available in 16Bits RGB the only need for that huge amount of color information is if one intends to really manipulate the picture, compressing and moving colors back and forth without risk for clipping. But if all you need to do are some cropping, some small color correction and a little sharpening, I’m not so sure you need the RAW data in the first place, IF the exposure is within limits. But I might be wrong….
04-23-2007, 08:57 PM   #10
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The custom menu actually has an option where you can make the RAW button stick for the next shot only, or until pressed again. It's on the second screen i believe, just scroll till you hit it.
04-23-2007, 11:25 PM   #11
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Yes, and still it doesnít stick, thatís what the post is all about. If I press playback it gets ďunstuckĒ, it should only get ďunstuckĒ the second time I press the RAW button. If one isnít aware of this things might get ugly.

Have to confess though that Iím slowly moving over to shooting more and more RAW and I wouldnít be surprised if I end up shooting RAW only, exactly as Will suggested.
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