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05-14-2009, 03:15 PM   #1
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DOF calc, Hyperfocal calc in camera.

Seeing as our cameras are now computers, is it possible to put the DOF calc and Hyperfocal calc into the menu system as tools?

Are these types of calcs done in the camera already?
If not, then they should.

regards
mike

05-14-2009, 04:13 PM   #2
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I can't figure out why they don't tell you your DOF after you've focused. Or another function, autoset Hyperfocal.

- Andrew
05-14-2009, 04:52 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by schmik Quote
Seeing as our cameras are now computers, is it possible to put the DOF calc and Hyperfocal calc into the menu system as tools?

Are these types of calcs done in the camera already?
If not, then they should.

regards
mike
Good idea - if it can read the aperture and focal length it only needs the distance to calculate the DOF, and this is where you may have an issue because I dont think that info is recorded.
05-14-2009, 05:00 PM   #4
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Hey, good idea.

05-14-2009, 06:40 PM   #5
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Canon has a DOF mode where you take two focus points, and the camera sets the shutter and aperture such that everything between point one and two is in focus.

It used to be found on Canon's top bodies, now it is just found up to the 50D (I think).
05-14-2009, 11:32 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by schmik Quote
Seeing as our cameras are now computers, is it possible to put the DOF calc and Hyperfocal calc into the menu system as tools?

Are these types of calcs done in the camera already?
If not, then they should.

regards
mike
This would only work with lenses that transmit distance info. I'm not so sure the distance info is accurate enough - EXIF data only shows focus on "near object" or "far object". If the distance were accurate, you'd think it would show up in the EXIF...
05-15-2009, 02:38 AM   #7
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If it was integrated into shooting then that would be sweet.... but also a little calc (like commonly found online) to use for reference purposes. The old camera operating manuals even use to include a table. It would save carrying a notepad.

mike
05-15-2009, 09:26 AM   #8
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It's best not to rely on that except as vague guidelines as being "within dof" or "just after hyperfocal distance" does not guarantee the image will be totally sharp.

05-15-2009, 10:00 AM   #9
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I believe that scene modes such as landscape and so does such things as i've observed that it sometimes stops down just enough to get everything in focus.

Of course such calculation is unpredictable and has no docomentation or tecnique to acheive pretty exact intended DOF as you could with older lenses wich has DOF scale.
05-15-2009, 01:05 PM   #10
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hyperfocal is really easy to calculate, but there's just no good way to implement* it into the camera as far as i can tell.

you need focal length, aperture and subject distance. that's easy for the camera.

how do you tell the user the near limit in the view finder or on the menu and not ruin the shooting experience?

if you have an ipod touch or iphone; just get the photocalc application. it's my pocket hyperfocal reference.
05-15-2009, 04:09 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by KungPOW Quote
Canon has a DOF mode where you take two focus points, and the camera sets the shutter and aperture such that everything between point one and two is in focus.

It used to be found on Canon's top bodies, now it is just found up to the 50D (I think).
Hell yeah, I'd forgotton how good that was. I had that on my old EOS 600 and used it a lot.
05-15-2009, 05:37 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
hyperfocal is really easy to calculate, but there's just no good way to implement* it into the camera as far as i can tell.

you need focal length, aperture and subject distance. that's easy for the camera.

how do you tell the user the near limit in the view finder or on the menu and not ruin the shooting experience?

if you have an ipod touch or iphone; just get the photocalc application. it's my pocket hyperfocal reference.

Thanks for the tip about the ipod application..... pity it won't run on a DSLR camera with a 3 inch screen.

mike
05-16-2009, 01:59 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by AndrewShirley Quote
I can't figure out why they don't tell you your DOF after you've focused. Or another function, autoset Hyperfocal.

- Andrew
QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
hyperfocal is really easy to calculate, but there's just no good way to implement* it into the camera as far as i can tell.

you need focal length, aperture and subject distance. that's easy for the camera.

how do you tell the user the near limit in the view finder or on the menu and not ruin the shooting experience?
I can't figure out why you're all searching for a high-tech solution to a low-tech problem:



05-16-2009, 03:15 AM   #14
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Maybe because most lenses today are too high-tech. But the tech isnt up to the lenses. Manufacturers have removed lens scales because of auto focus, but haven't developed auto focus techniques to replace what they have removed.

After removing all the manual guides for focussing (no split prism, no dof scale, smaller viewfinders, bigger DOF viewfinders etc) they have left only P&S style autofocus in ALL cameras. But cameras as DSLR's (wich has much shallower DOF, interchangeable lenses and are more advanced in general), even the entry level ones, HAS to offer more advanced focus controls, since you cannot always allow fully automatic operation of such complex task as AF or use manual focus in fast, precise and professional enough manner with so crippled implementation as current one.

As well as you cannot expect a unit to be perfectly compatible in a hard coded/pre configured and fully automatic way with such variety of exchangeable parts having so many possible configurations and different origins. I could only expect it to work more or less flawlessly if each of the device had something like a device driver, but in current configuration it is pretty much a miracle .

If you take pictures in Av mode, AF would be much faster if it measured a rough subject distance, and if it is within the hyper focal range of the current aperture value just jump to it.

It is hard for me to imagine doing this with DA 18-55, in a day when i'm out shooting only landscapes, knowing how loose the focus ring is in MF and that the lens has no scale.
But it would ensure fast and always correct focus, if camera just threw the lens at fixed position with no unneeded calculations.

I'm still surprised that modern digitally controlled and programmed cameras offer so small customization. They should already long time ago have simple but powerful tools you can use to fully customize and reconfigure camera from PC. Set various calibration parameters, store multiple configurations, fix simple issues, button assignments, menu layouts metering techniques (e.g. kelvin thresholds) and modes. For many years they already use operating systems, up datable firmwares and powerful processing electronics and are far from mechanical or hard-wired/coded machines. Many other tools (as smart phones, computers) at such price levels, complexity already offers functions like those.
Such system would allow the tool to be made for photographer and allow to preserve and have most comfortable operation scheme between different DSLR's they own.
What's the point of software if you still make it hard coded. Just allows for manufacturers to release new camera models without REAL improvements, just functions or minor redesign. But this only makes benefit manufacturers wich release new model every other month. But one with such a joint and backwards compatible system would be truly made for photographer.
I don't mean that users need to write code for motor control, but things like pre definable focusing distance intervals(e.g. Macro 0-50cm, indoors 0.5m-5m, general 0-Inf, landscape 5-Inf), setting timer times and check boxes for mirror lock-up's would seem logical configuration possibilities.

Last edited by ytterbium; 05-16-2009 at 08:05 AM.
05-16-2009, 08:14 AM   #15
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Yep. Thought of that one already in the "dear Pentax" thread:

"Okay, my turn to throw out a wild idea: Why don't digital cameras have a fully digitalized way of determining depth of field?

Is something like the following scenario possible and feasible? Your autofocus lens sends info about aperture and distance-to-focused-subject to the camera. The camera's processor calculates a depth of field range, which shows in the viewfinder. This effectively moves the depth-of-field scale off of the lens body into the viewfinder digital info. Furthermore, the DOF scale in the viewfinder is colored, with red at either end, yellow towards the middle, and green in the "middle", corresponding to degress of sharpness within the DOF. So, as you focus, you see the degree of sharpness you are achieving.

No more looking at charts. No more looking at lens bodies. No more having to see and make judgments about darkened images in a viewfinder.

I'm not aware of any camera manufacturer that has done this. So, if it could be done, and done within the size and price of a typical digital camera, it would be a scoop for that manufacturer."


So far, I haven't heard any good reasons why it couldn't be done. Let's all hope....
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