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05-18-2009, 02:03 AM   #1
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When to Turn on Noise Reduction?

I shot say 95% at ISO 100, and always NR off, so I have no clue about when to turn on NR, when to turn off, any enlightenment would be appreciated.

Best wishes.
Can.

05-18-2009, 03:29 AM   #2
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Shooting JPEG? When I shoot JPEG with my K20D I set the High ISO NR to Low.
05-18-2009, 03:36 AM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
Shooting JPEG? When I shoot JPEG with my K20D I set the High ISO NR to Low.
I shoot mostly RAW+jpeg
05-18-2009, 03:55 AM   #4
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It only affects JPEG, so if shooting RAW it won't matter

05-18-2009, 04:09 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
It only affects JPEG, so if shooting RAW it won't matter
RAW's fate are being converted to jpeg's anyway when sending to print service or when showing off on the internet, isn't it? Besides I shoot only jpegs once in a while.
05-18-2009, 06:10 AM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
It only affects JPEG, so if shooting RAW it won't matter
NR is applied to raw files. The only time you should enable the feature is when you're shooting jpeg or plan to process the raw files in the camera. Otherwise you're losing detail.
05-18-2009, 11:06 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
NR is applied to raw files.
*Some* NR may be, but the specific NR that is controlled by the High ISO NR custom option is only for JPEG.

The High ISO NR option, like it says, only applies to high ISO, which is of course the only time you'd normally want it. So most people would probably just leave it on all the time when shooting JPEG - it has no effect on low ISO shooting, and when shooting at high ISO, you generally want some NR. If you shoot RAW, you can forget the option exists - it has no effect. Sure, you may convert your RAW to JPEG eventually, but whatever program you use to do that probably won't be paying attention to the setting of that option - and even if it did, you'd probabl;y want finer control over how much NR was applied than the simple choices provided in camera.
05-18-2009, 11:59 AM   #8
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My vote is for "NEVER". Once Noise Reduction is applied to an image in camera the lost detail is gone, gone, gone. In Post Processing you can try various settings to get the optimum image for your personal purposes.

05-19-2009, 05:58 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
*Some* NR may be, but the specific NR that is controlled by the High ISO NR custom option is only for JPEG.

The High ISO NR option, like it says, only applies to high ISO, which is of course the only time you'd normally want it. So most people would probably just leave it on all the time when shooting JPEG - it has no effect on low ISO shooting, and when shooting at high ISO, you generally want some NR. If you shoot RAW, you can forget the option exists - it has no effect. Sure, you may convert your RAW to JPEG eventually, but whatever program you use to do that probably won't be paying attention to the setting of that option - and even if it did, you'd probabl;y want finer control over how much NR was applied than the simple choices provided in camera.
you're guessing. noise reduction is applied to raws if you enable the feature; it's a custom set of curves used to minimize chroma color noise. it softens the picture. it's automatically applied at certain iso settings and is a very legitimate reason to push raws 1 or 2 stops (shoot at -2ev/iso400 if you want a clean iso1600).


if you're shooting raw, disable everything in camera and use a quality app (acr/capture one/etc) to convert so you get the highest resolution from your files. once nr is applied in camera you'll never get that detail back; if your converter applies nr via curves when converting to tiff/jpeg you'll retain more detail (instead of softening twice).

however, if you only shoot jpeg or use the supplied pentax raw converter .. enable noise reduction 'cause you're not gonna get a worse result at the end of the work flow.

Last edited by attack11; 05-19-2009 at 06:05 AM.
05-19-2009, 07:03 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
I shot say 95% at ISO 100, and always NR off, so I have no clue about when to turn on NR, when to turn off, any enlightenment would be appreciated.
Can.,

To answer your question directly:

1, If you're shooting only at ISO 100, then the High ISO Noise Reduction option doesn't matter. You can turn it on or off: It won't affect your pictures.

2, If you're shooting at higher ISOs (say, 1600), then the option will matter to the jpegs that the camera produces. If you are shooting Raw + JPEG, then the option will make a difference to the JPEG file. Should you use it? It depends. If you want to save yourself time, then turn the option on and let the camera reduce noise in high-ISO images. But if picture detail is more important to you than your time, then do NOT turn it on, or leave it set on the "weakest" setting. Leaving NR off will preserve detail. When you review the photo on your computer, you can then decide whether you want to use noise reduction software to clean up the image.

My real advice is, test it out for yourself. Sounds like it's not really an important question for you, since you shoot mostly at ISO 100. But go ahead, turn the camera up to a high ISO and take some test shots, with noise reduction off, and then with noise reduction on at various strengths. See what you think of the results.

I shoot a LOT at high ISO. I leave the setting OFF. If I find the noise offensive, I adjust it first in Adobe Lightroom. If I don't like the results there, I try either Noise Ninja or Neat Image.

Will
05-19-2009, 07:17 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by attack11 Quote
you're guessing. noise reduction is applied to raws if you enable the feature
I'm not guessing at all - I'm paraphrasing GordonBGood, who has analyzed and studied the actual RAW data from all recent Pentax camera models using software of his own design. The details actually vary from model to model as to which apply NR to the RAW data and at what ISO levels that kicks in, but according to his analysis, the cameras that do this do it *regardless* of the the setting of the custom option. You can search for his analyses on dpreview if you like. It is of course *possible* I am misrepresenting Gordon's research due to faulty memory, but I'm definitely not just "guessing". What is your source for your information?
05-19-2009, 08:00 AM   #12
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Do we have a confirmation of who is right here? I would hope it applies to JPG only and the RAW is raw but i'd like to confirm what it does either way.
05-19-2009, 08:55 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Alfisti Quote
Do we have a confirmation of who is right here? I would hope it applies to JPG only and the RAW is raw but i'd like to confirm what it does either way.
Hmm...I also want to know about this.
I thought the NR also applied to RAW.
So is it for sure that the NR is only applicable to JPEG?
05-19-2009, 12:39 PM   #14
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Since I am not the one who actually looked at the RAW data, I'm not going to try to defend my claims here, but if you're looking for information that formed the basis of my comments, see postings by GordonBGood on dpreview, such as this one:

K2000D(Km) vs. K200D noise in raw...: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

and:

Re: K20D vs K200D from a non-Pentax user: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

He references posts by Oleg_V, such as this one:

K20 RAW data tweaked to hide noise! [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

It's pretty dry technical stuff, and like I said, the specifics differ from camera to camera. But if you're looking for actual irrefutable data on whatever specific question about the noise and noise reduction in whatever specific camera you might have, there are the guys to read.
05-19-2009, 12:54 PM   #15
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WHat kind of an idiot argues with GBG? Talk about asking for a beating, the guy clearly knows his stuff.
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