What's the hands-on verdict - K-7 vs. K20D AF?

emr · 05-20-2009, 11:24 PM

I'm posting this in the DSLR forum and not any more in the News and rumours section for obvious reasons.

As some testers here have now had the new K in their own hands, I'd like to hear about how's the real world K-7 AF? Is it faster than on a K20D and if so, how much? Is there less hunting in low light? What kind of lens was used in the evaluation? What firmware version did the camera body have - a pre-release or a release version?

and · 05-20-2009, 11:28 PM

I of course havnt tried it but have you tried the km? I found the km to already be a lot better than the k20d, assuming the k7 is better than the km again u get an idea

emr · 05-20-2009, 11:40 PM

Nope, never even seen a K-m IRL.

Chyn · 05-21-2009, 01:16 AM

My impression from comparing the K-m and K20D was that the newer body is driven by a more powerful focusing mechanism than the one found in the K20D. Subjectively, the K-m seemed faster in acquiring focus.

It remains to be seen whether the K7 inherited the K-m's design or has improved on it.

and · 05-21-2009, 01:36 AM

my impression of the km was that it was not only fast but it didnt have the characteristinc slow jerk into focus that the k10, ds and k20 did, move-check-move-check-move etc. it seemed more direct. and it would seem obvious the k7 is improved with the secondary af sensor etc

Arpe · 05-21-2009, 02:14 AM

I too would like to see some real world test, scientificish if possible. I want it to keep up with someone running at you (sprinting) from 50m away right up to the camera. I have no idea if any other brand can even accomplish this.

pingflood · 05-21-2009, 05:02 AM

Originally posted by Arpe

I too would like to see some real world test, scientificish if possible. I want it to keep up with someone running at you (sprinting) from 50m away right up to the camera. I have no idea if any other brand can even accomplish this.

Depends on what you mean by "right up to".

According to Canon, my camera with a 300/2.8 will track accurately something coming towards you at the following speed/distances:

20 meters / 186mph
10 meters / ~40mph
4 meters / ~6mph

With a wider/shorter lens you'd obviously have much better tracking action at shorter distances as the relative subject movement would be smaller -- not sure what the numbers come out to but I've never had any trouble tracking stuff even close to me.

I think the same AF tracking speed is spec'd for the prosumer bodies and even some of the rebels too... the main thing you get with the pro bodies is that it tracks across the 45 point AF area like this.

Anyway, I don't want this to turn into a Pentax bashing thread or anti-Canon raging from people, but you DID ask.

I do hope the K7 kicks ass AF wise, because it really looks like a superb camera overall. Like a K20D on steroids.

FullertonImages · 05-21-2009, 09:19 AM

Also keep in mind that, as far as I know, all the K-7's the people have right now, are still running pre-production firmware, and I'm sure reults aren't too accurate until the finally optimize everything and run the final firmware. who knows if the changes will effect AF or not, but I would treat anything until then as not definitive. Especially if it doesn't say what I want it to.

Igilligan · 05-21-2009, 09:32 AM

Originally posted by GeneralBenson

Also keep in mind that, as far as I know, all the K-7's the people have right now, are still running pre-production firmware, and I'm sure reults aren't too accurate until the finally optimize everything and run the final firmware. who knows if the changes will effect AF or not, but I would treat anything until then as not definitive. Especially if it doesn't say what I want it to.

Also keep in mind that, many of these folks who were given pre-production versions of these cameras to test... were given pre-production versions by PENTAX. Few would risk that relationship that gives them beta versions of cameras and lenses, by actually telling us if there were any issues with the Pentax marketing claims about the camera. Come on, if Pentax was sending me the latest gear for free to test. I would tell pentax if I had problems, but I would only be telling you all the good stuff...

Remember, many of the pre-prodution testers were saying the K20d AF speed was much improved over the K10d. Only after the camera came out and regular folks got their hands on the camera did we come to realize that the AF was pretty much that same.

Beware of the glowing reports from the chosen few... or at least be aware of the chosen few. Wait for the real reviews and for the production models to be out a few months to see if the new bells and whistles are causing any sour notes before droppin' 1300 bucks on a brand new design.

dave sz · 05-21-2009, 10:02 AM

Originally posted by emr

I'm posting this in the DSLR forum and not any more in the News and rumours section for obvious reasons.

As some testers here have now had the new K in their own hands, I'd like to hear about how's the real world K-7 AF? Is it faster than on a K20D and if so, how much? Is there less hunting in low light? What kind of lens was used in the evaluation? What firmware version did the camera body have - a pre-release or a release version?

It would be suicidal for pentax if the k 7 AF was worse than the k20. No one has a retail firmware camera yet...

raz · 05-21-2009, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Igilligan

Remember, many of the pre-prodution testers were saying the K20d AF speed was much improved over the K10d. Only after the camera came out and regular folks got their hands on the camera did we come to realize that the AF was pretty much that same.

Are you sure about this ? From reading the board I know a lot of people made tests and said the K20D speed is faster than K10D and blamed Pentax for not saying this in their brochures.

They made the fish tank test and so on, even Rice High if I remembered correctly (and we know how much he "loves" Pentax), acknowledged that the K20D has a faster AF.

Igilligan · 05-21-2009, 10:26 AM

I have never dropped my kids into an aquarium and tried to take shots of them, although sometimes I would like to...

I find little difference between my K100d and my K20d in Af speed. But I do remember the early testers on the other forum telling us there was a much improved difference between the K10 and the K20...
Even with an aquarium testing result that says otherwise, I would say there is little difference between the two... I am hoping for a "much improved' AF when the production models hit the store. Especially since it does not seem from early reports that Pentax attempted any real 'tracking/predictive AF' with the K7... I do hope that the CF and focus lock is much faster.

But I say again... this K7d is a sexy little camera. Cant wait to get my hands on one.

Arpe · 05-21-2009, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by pingflood

20 meters / 186mph
10 meters / ~40mph

That would be good! (For me)

pingflood · 05-21-2009, 07:59 PM

Originally posted by Arpe

That would be good! (For me)

Please note that those numbers are with a 300mm lens -- obviously with shorter focal lengths you'll find snappier tracking up close, and dependent on the lens in particular it may or may not do so well; e.g. the 85/1.2 isn't really fast since it has to shuffle around a significant amount of glass compared to the 85/1.8....

If you really want to capture runners in action, I'd look at the 85/1.8 or 135/2 if you want to be fairly close and like primes.

(If not, the 70-200/2.8 is an AF monster too!)

Arpe · 05-24-2009, 06:34 PM

I usually use Sigma 70-200/f2.8, often with 1.4x on.

05-20-2009, 11:24 PM	#1
emr Guest	What's the hands-on verdict - K-7 vs. K20D AF? I'm posting this in the DSLR forum and not any more in the News and rumours section for obvious reasons. As some testers here have now had the new K in their own hands, I'd like to hear about how's the real world K-7 AF? Is it faster than on a K20D and if so, how much? Is there less hunting in low light? What kind of lens was used in the evaluation? What firmware version did the camera body have - a pre-release or a release version?

05-21-2009, 09:32 AM	#9
Igilligan Guest	Originally posted by GeneralBenson Also keep in mind that, as far as I know, all the K-7's the people have right now, are still running pre-production firmware, and I'm sure reults aren't too accurate until the finally optimize everything and run the final firmware. who knows if the changes will effect AF or not, but I would treat anything until then as not definitive. Especially if it doesn't say what I want it to. Also keep in mind that, many of these folks who were given pre-production versions of these cameras to test... were given pre-production versions by PENTAX. Few would risk that relationship that gives them beta versions of cameras and lenses, by actually telling us if there were any issues with the Pentax marketing claims about the camera. Come on, if Pentax was sending me the latest gear for free to test. I would tell pentax if I had problems, but I would only be telling you all the good stuff... Remember, many of the pre-prodution testers were saying the K20d AF speed was much improved over the K10d. Only after the camera came out and regular folks got their hands on the camera did we come to realize that the AF was pretty much that same. Beware of the glowing reports from the chosen few... or at least be aware of the chosen few. Wait for the real reviews and for the production models to be out a few months to see if the new bells and whistles are causing any sour notes before droppin' 1300 bucks on a brand new design. Last edited by Igilligan; 05-21-2009 at 10:32 AM.

05-21-2009, 10:26 AM	#12
Igilligan Guest	Hi Raz... I have never dropped my kids into an aquarium and tried to take shots of them, although sometimes I would like to... I find little difference between my K100d and my K20d in Af speed. But I do remember the early testers on the other forum telling us there was a much improved difference between the K10 and the K20... Even with an aquarium testing result that says otherwise, I would say there is little difference between the two... I am hoping for a "much improved' AF when the production models hit the store. Especially since it does not seem from early reports that Pentax attempted any real 'tracking/predictive AF' with the K7... I do hope that the CF and focus lock is much faster. But I say again... this K7d is a sexy little camera. Cant wait to get my hands on one.

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05-20-2009, 11:28 PM	#2
and Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,476	I of course havnt tried it but have you tried the km? I found the km to already be a lot better than the k20d, assuming the k7 is better than the km again u get an idea

05-20-2009, 11:40 PM	#3
emr Guest	Nope, never even seen a K-m IRL.

05-21-2009, 01:16 AM	#4
Chyn New Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Germany Posts: 7	My impression from comparing the K-m and K20D was that the newer body is driven by a more powerful focusing mechanism than the one found in the K20D. Subjectively, the K-m seemed faster in acquiring focus. It remains to be seen whether the K7 inherited the K-m's design or has improved on it.

05-21-2009, 01:36 AM	#5
and Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,476	my impression of the km was that it was not only fast but it didnt have the characteristinc slow jerk into focus that the k10, ds and k20 did, move-check-move-check-move etc. it seemed more direct. and it would seem obvious the k7 is improved with the secondary af sensor etc

05-21-2009, 02:14 AM	#6
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	I too would like to see some real world test, scientificish if possible. I want it to keep up with someone running at you (sprinting) from 50m away right up to the camera. I have no idea if any other brand can even accomplish this.

05-21-2009, 05:02 AM	#7
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by Arpe I too would like to see some real world test, scientificish if possible. I want it to keep up with someone running at you (sprinting) from 50m away right up to the camera. I have no idea if any other brand can even accomplish this. Depends on what you mean by "right up to". According to Canon, my camera with a 300/2.8 will track accurately something coming towards you at the following speed/distances: 20 meters / 186mph 10 meters / ~40mph 4 meters / ~6mph With a wider/shorter lens you'd obviously have much better tracking action at shorter distances as the relative subject movement would be smaller -- not sure what the numbers come out to but I've never had any trouble tracking stuff even close to me. I think the same AF tracking speed is spec'd for the prosumer bodies and even some of the rebels too... the main thing you get with the pro bodies is that it tracks across the 45 point AF area like this. Anyway, I don't want this to turn into a Pentax bashing thread or anti-Canon raging from people, but you DID ask. I do hope the K7 kicks ass AF wise, because it really looks like a superb camera overall. Like a K20D on steroids.

05-21-2009, 09:19 AM	#8
FullertonImages Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 883	Also keep in mind that, as far as I know, all the K-7's the people have right now, are still running pre-production firmware, and I'm sure reults aren't too accurate until the finally optimize everything and run the final firmware. who knows if the changes will effect AF or not, but I would treat anything until then as not definitive. Especially if it doesn't say what I want it to.

05-21-2009, 10:02 AM	#10
dave sz Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: carpentersville, IL Posts: 693	Originally posted by emr I'm posting this in the DSLR forum and not any more in the News and rumours section for obvious reasons. As some testers here have now had the new K in their own hands, I'd like to hear about how's the real world K-7 AF? Is it faster than on a K20D and if so, how much? Is there less hunting in low light? What kind of lens was used in the evaluation? What firmware version did the camera body have - a pre-release or a release version? It would be suicidal for pentax if the k 7 AF was worse than the k20. No one has a retail firmware camera yet...

05-21-2009, 10:08 AM	#11
raz Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Timisoara, Romania Posts: 248	Originally posted by Igilligan Remember, many of the pre-prodution testers were saying the K20d AF speed was much improved over the K10d. Only after the camera came out and regular folks got their hands on the camera did we come to realize that the AF was pretty much that same. Are you sure about this ? From reading the board I know a lot of people made tests and said the K20D speed is faster than K10D and blamed Pentax for not saying this in their brochures. They made the fish tank test and so on, even Rice High if I remembered correctly (and we know how much he "loves" Pentax), acknowledged that the K20D has a faster AF.

05-21-2009, 05:53 PM	#13
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	Originally posted by pingflood 20 meters / 186mph 10 meters / ~40mph That would be good! (For me)

05-21-2009, 07:59 PM	#14
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by Arpe That would be good! (For me) Please note that those numbers are with a 300mm lens -- obviously with shorter focal lengths you'll find snappier tracking up close, and dependent on the lens in particular it may or may not do so well; e.g. the 85/1.2 isn't really fast since it has to shuffle around a significant amount of glass compared to the 85/1.8.... If you really want to capture runners in action, I'd look at the 85/1.8 or 135/2 if you want to be fairly close and like primes. (If not, the 70-200/2.8 is an AF monster too!)

05-24-2009, 06:34 PM	#15
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	I usually use Sigma 70-200/f2.8, often with 1.4x on.