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05-23-2009, 10:00 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
lithium Ion batteries *require* circuitry that stop drawing power before the battery loses charge to avoid destroying the battery's integrity.
QuoteQuote:
People want to complain, they should complaint that most (if not every) AA device lacks this circuitry.
I'm not sure what you prior experience was with; NiCads maybe? Li-ion batteries require that and other protection circuitry mostly because lithium is so volatile. OTOH, Li-ions tend to have shorter lifetimes and don't like being deep cycled, protection circuitry or not. NiMHs aren't perfect but are a bit harder to kill, even with all the dumb devices out there.

QuoteQuote:
Here's what I want to know. Does the K7 on rechargeable lithium Ion AA have the correct circuitry to avoid damaging the batteries?
As another poster noted, there aren't any Lithium-based rechargeable AAs, but a common complaint with the AA-taking Pentax DSLRs is that they're so picky about battery voltage that they cut off before using the capacity of many rechargeables. IOW, they're too protective.

The K-7 appears to have a menu to let you select the battery type, which should help avoid that particular issue. Given the track record here, it's extremely unlikely to drain a set of AAs to damaging levels though; it'd cut off long before then due to lack of drive power.

One thing I find interesting about the K-7's grip is that it takes 6 AAs; that should let you exceed the capacity of the D-Li90 with the appropriate batteries.

05-23-2009, 10:38 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Quension Quote
One thing I find interesting about the K-7's grip is that it takes 6 AAs; that should let you exceed the capacity of the D-Li90 with the appropriate batteries.
Indeed, in a pinch a set of six L91 energisers would provide a terminal voltage of 9 volts with about 3000mAh of capacity ie ~27Wh against the 14WH of the D-LI90 and would probably be far lighter.
05-24-2009, 06:24 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by distudio Quote
Why they opted to implement obviously dated battery technology (NP-400 has been around since at least 2003) in the K10/20 baffles me.
I thought it was great as I could buy a cheap backup battery. Will that be able to be done with the new battery(without having to buy an expensive genuine Pentax one)?
05-24-2009, 06:39 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
I thought it was great as I could buy a cheap backup battery. Will that be able to be done with the new battery(without having to buy an expensive genuine Pentax one)?
Probably not, depends where your priorities lie, mine is with minimizing the number of battery types and chargers that are required when on extended trips.

Cheers,

05-25-2009, 09:48 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by konraDarnok Quote
Having bought a K10D, a couple years ago, I'd never switch back to AA's. The rechargeable AA's don't match up at all. Not even close.
Spoken like someone who has never used the low self-discharge hybrid NiMH batteries...
05-25-2009, 09:54 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sean Nelson Quote
Spoken like someone who has never used the low self-discharge hybrid NiMH batteries...
Sean
I love my Eneloops, have six sets, why only as a last resort would I buy a grip. I don't want a camera that's too cumbersome.

Barry (last name the same as yours )
05-25-2009, 12:40 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Steve Beswick Quote
Three words - zero development cost.
And also very user friendly. I already had several and charger as well before I got my K10. And I could get hold of cheap no brand batteries. Now I guess we will all have to buy Pentax original since noone else will be using them... I'd rather spend the money on glass than batteries.... But I guess they had to change. Would have been nice if that super flexible grip could also handle the old batteries...but that would be to ask too much, Pentax want to sell batteries as well of course. I wonder if the volume of battery sales really is enough to make it a profitable deal for Pentax though...I guess most people don't buy extra batteries.
05-29-2009, 03:23 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Does anybody know if the grip will also take the proprietary battery? Or do you have to use AA in the grip?
Will
According to PENTAX D-BG4 Battery Grip - Official PENTAX Imaging Web Site ,

"The D-BG4 Battery Grip extends shooting times by providing additional power via a second lithium-ion battery or AA batteries."

05-29-2009, 06:32 PM   #24
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I currently own a K100DS and decided to pass on the K20D.
Looks like it paid off! (I also wanted a better viewfinder)
05-29-2009, 06:36 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Sean Nelson Quote
Spoken like someone who has never used the low self-discharge hybrid NiMH batteries...
I agree Sean!
I'm getting tons of runtime out of my LSD's and Maha 808m.
05-30-2009, 04:43 AM   #26
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Have never been much of a fan of proprietary batteries, leaves me at the mercy of the manufacturer and their willingness to support the product down the road.

I have been holding off on upgrade, my main thing was the inability to turn off noise reduction in the K20, not so much the battery type.
Now, with K-7, supposedly, the NR can be disabled AND it can be operated with just the AA`s in the grip,( go lithium's). (I know i read it somewhere, that it can be operated with AA`s alone). This most likely will be my next new camera.

And, yes , AA rechargeable lithium`s are available. You just have to sign a liability waiver that releases manufacturer from responsibility, when you burn your house down,.

Cheers. Mike.
06-01-2009, 02:49 PM   #27
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Sean,

I'm with you there. AA support was a big reason I bought the K200D.
It looks like I won't be upgrading to the K7 anytime soon. Not that I was looking to, anyway - I only had the K200D for one year, and it is meeting all my needs so far.

Still, if I ever wanted the extra features of the K7, I would consider the lack of AA support a big strike. I will not get a K20D either for the same reason even though it has become much cheaper than before.

I know the DBG4 grip allows AA use with the K7, but the grip shouldn't be required - it makes the camera bigger and heavier. Since the grip gives you the choice of LI or 6AA, why couldn't Pentax make the camera body also have that same choice ? I think it is short-sighted of them.

QuoteOriginally posted by Sean Nelson Quote
I can't really justify the cost of a K-7 for my needs anyway, so this comment will probably ring a little hollow. But I'm also in the AA battery camp and wouldn't consider buying a K-7 because of it's proprietary batteries. The grip's a non-starter for me because of bulk and weight.

Reasons why I prefer AA's:

a) The new low self-discharge NiMH batteries are in the same performance league as Li-IONs.

b) The AA form factor gives me a choice of battery technologies, including super long-lasting disposable Lithium batteries for treks away from power sources.

c) I can use a smart charger that reports battery capacities and has test and refresh modes.

d) AAs are ubiquitous and cheap.

e) A camera that takes AA batteries is much, much less likely to become obsolete because the proprietary batteries are no longer available.

f) As a matter of principle, I object to the idea of manufacturers tying you into a proprietary battery.
06-01-2009, 03:13 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I know the DBG4 grip allows AA use with the K7, but the grip shouldn't be required - it makes the camera bigger and heavier. Since the grip gives you the choice of LI or 6AA, why couldn't Pentax make the camera body also have that same choice ? I think it is short-sighted of them.
And where could they put those? I don't think there would be room for 6AAs, while keeping the K20D's size. With a smaller camera like the K-7, no chance.
06-01-2009, 03:57 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kunzite Quote
QuoteOriginally posted by madbrain Quote
I know the DBG4 grip allows AA use with the K7, but the grip shouldn't be required - it makes the camera bigger and heavier. Since the grip gives you the choice of LI or 6AA, why couldn't Pentax make the camera body also have that same choice ? I think it is short-sighted of them.
And where could they put those? I don't think there would be room for 6AAs, while keeping the K20D's size. With a smaller camera like the K-7, no chance.
To add to that, the K-7's D-Li90 exceeds the capacity of 4 AA rechargeables in the K200D (and isn't much less than the best non-rechargeables). I too am firmly in the AA camp, but this size and weight advantage is the main reason companies keep using Li-Ion.
06-01-2009, 04:05 PM   #30
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A Norwegian webshop now lists the new D-LI90 at 262 NOK including 25% VAT. With current exchange values that should be about 34 USD / 24 EUR
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