Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-25-2009, 03:03 PM   #1
Senior Member
Lainey's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wellingborough
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 104
Question about noise

I have read a lot of comments praising the K20D's great noise ability, and have assumed that the GX-20 would be the same.

I took a whole load of bird shots today, and went up to iso 800 - example below. The noise is awful, even at iso 200 - is this normal, or am I doing something wrong...?

I'd actually managed to catch some Blue Tits today, after many previous attempts; the birds are sharp but every shot ruined by noise, so I'm pretty fed up.




iso 800, 300mm, f5.6 @ 1000th sec.

05-25-2009, 03:34 PM   #2
Veteran Member




Join Date: Apr 2009
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 489
800 is too far. You will have to expect substantial noise at that level. I use a K10D, and in daylight, I can go up to around 500 before it gets too much. I find next to no difference between 100 and 200..
05-25-2009, 03:44 PM   #3
Loyal Site Supporter
Canada_Rockies's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sparwood, BC, Canada
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 9,398
Did you increase the exposure in post processing? That can increase the noise as well.
05-25-2009, 04:04 PM   #4
Senior Member
Lainey's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wellingborough
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 104
Original Poster
thanks for the replies. The only thing I did PP was to resize the image. I expected to get some noise at 800 but not that much... I don't normally notice it at 100 or 200 but it was very noticeable today.

05-25-2009, 04:46 PM   #5
Ash
Community Manager
Loyal Site Supporter
Ash's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,687
Did you find your PP program having to 'push' the exposure to get a balanced photo?
Most programs do this automatically so you may not have noticed this when you edited it. That's what Albert was talking about.
05-25-2009, 05:56 PM   #6
Pentaxian
er1kksen's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Staten Island, NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,673
I've used my K20D for birds at up to ISO 1600 and not found the results unpleasant... are you expecting the results to be totally smooth, or are you okay with a little grain? My usual workflow for working at higher ISOs is to shoot RAW in DNG format, then open them in RAWTherapee (beware, it'll usually try to brighten up the image a lot when you first open it) and turn the chroma noise reduction all the way up. It leaves a nice, tight luminance noise "grain" that reminds me of prints you saw in magazines from 35mm Fuji Velvia... which was ISO 50 :-p.
05-25-2009, 07:01 PM   #7
Veteran Member
palmor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA
Posts: 798
The thing about high ISO shooting is that you have to expose to the right because if you have to increase exposure in post process you will get noise. That being said something like noise ninja or noiseware (try the free downloads) work very well at retaining detail and reducing noise.

Personally I find that if you expose correctly you can get great images using ISO 800 and ISO 1600

I know these aren't full size images but looking at a 100% crops of 14 mega pixels is not a good to determine what a print would actually look like. You'd be surprised at how much you see at 100% crops that you NEVER see in an actual print (unless you blow it WAY up)

..and of course everyone's tolerance for noise is different, I just may have a low standard

These have no noise reduction done to them:

Pentax K20D ,Pentax smc DA* 300mm f/4 ED (IF) SDM
1/100s f/5.6 at 450.0mm iso1600 with Kenko 1.5xTC



Pentax K20D ,Pentax smc DA* 300mm f/4 ED (IF) SDM
1/400s f/5.6 at 450.0mm iso800 (with Kenko 1.5x TC)


I even find noise at ISO3200 well controlled
Pentax K20D ,Sigma APO 70-200mm F2.8 II EX DG MACRO HSM Penta
1/200s f/2.8 at 110.0mm iso3200

Last edited by palmor; 05-25-2009 at 07:51 PM.
05-25-2009, 09:40 PM   #8
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
At the posted size, it's pretty hard to say the pictures were "ruined" by noise. From what I can tell, it looks like any other DSLR at ISO 800. Other samples I've seen show it to perform very similarly to the DS which you also apparently own. At lower ISO, the noise levels in the shadows *are* often noticed to be a bit more with the K20D, although certainly nothign that would be visible at screen sizes or normal print sizes.


Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 05-26-2009 at 07:57 AM.
05-25-2009, 10:31 PM   #9
Veteran Member
Jewelltrail's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Rhode Island
Photos: Albums
Posts: 4,180
Palmor:

QuoteQuote:
Personally I find that if you expose correctly you can get great images using ISO 800 and ISO 1600
Yes!

QuoteQuote:
I know these aren't full size images but looking at a 100% crops of 14 mega pixels is not a good to determine what a print would actually look like. You'd be surprised at how much you see at 100% crops that you NEVER see in an actual print (unless you blow it WAY up)
Yes!
05-26-2009, 04:21 PM   #10
Senior Member
Lainey's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wellingborough
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 104
Original Poster
thanks again for all your replies, I've had another look at the file and now think that you're all right and the exposure was too far to the left, because it was a dark scene it was a bit misleading. At least I can learn and improve from this, and noisy or not, it doesnt take away my sense of satisfaction in at least getting the bird at all!

palmor, I am really impressed with your images, if that is what my camera is capable of I'd better pull my socks up, thank you - knowing that IT can is a huge relief!
05-26-2009, 05:13 PM   #11
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 356
Palmor that first shot is phenomenal! I can put my nose to my screen and hardly spot any noise! Is your K20D default NR off for high iso?
05-26-2009, 06:21 PM   #12
Ash
Community Manager
Loyal Site Supporter
Ash's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,687
As can be seen (awesome work palmor), if you 'expose to the right' (check this on the CAMERA'S histogram - usually requires a slower shutter speed, or just use EC +0.3-0.7), then beautiful images with very acceptable levels of noise can be produced.
05-27-2009, 06:39 AM   #13
Veteran Member
rburgoss's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Jose, Costa Rica
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 972
QuoteOriginally posted by Lainey Quote
I have read a lot of comments praising the K20D's great noise ability, and have assumed that the GX-20 would be the same.

I took a whole load of bird shots today, and went up to iso 800 - example below. The noise is awful, even at iso 200 - is this normal, or am I doing something wrong...?

I'd actually managed to catch some Blue Tits today, after many previous attempts; the birds are sharp but every shot ruined by noise, so I'm pretty fed up.




iso 800, 300mm, f5.6 @ 1000th sec.
That kind of noise looks very similar to the noise I got from my K20D, when the "fine sharpness" was engaged. I discovered that the fine sharpness thing not only slightly improves the sharpness appearance, but also boosts noise levels. Check if you have it engaged.

Here's an example of fine sharpness off with sharpness levels set at normal.
(K20D + Fa200/2.8* at 1/250 sec and f/3.5, ISO 800)

05-27-2009, 10:18 AM   #14
Veteran Member
palmor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA
Posts: 798
QuoteOriginally posted by kthung Quote
Palmor that first shot is phenomenal! I can put my nose to my screen and hardly spot any noise! Is your K20D default NR off for high iso?
Thanks I shoot everything in RAW so the noise reduction settings don't really apply to me.


John
05-27-2009, 10:57 AM   #15
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,435
QuoteOriginally posted by palmor Quote
Thanks I shoot everything in RAW so the noise reduction settings don't really apply to me.


John
Got somewhere to post the RAW?... really doesn't look too bad to me except for the blown highlights.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, dslr, iso, noise, photography
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beginners question about noise (clunk) in a Pentax DSLR DV8 Troubleshooting and Beginner Help 62 09-25-2013 06:04 PM
K7 noise versus the rest question (a different take) harleynitelite Pentax DSLR Discussion 42 01-10-2010 10:26 AM
Question Re: K-x a different kind of noise Katsura Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 12-05-2009 11:37 PM
Noise Reduction question k20d jbrowning Pentax DSLR Discussion 10 10-22-2008 04:18 PM
Another noise question Eddie Pentax DSLR Discussion 9 11-15-2007 10:47 AM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:11 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top