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06-04-2009, 05:31 PM   #181
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QuoteOriginally posted by random Quote
I am not a pentax user (yet) but do visit these forums regularly. My current gear is from Canon and Sony but I do have an iterest in Pentax and might end up picking up the K-7 which I think is finally the first pentax slr with no major compromises.

However I must say JCPentax, that if you are a pentax official then I am bemused at the rude and offensive tone of your post to your loyal cutsomer base. And equally strange is the fact that if someone tries to point out your rudeness, you say that this is a proof of the fact that they are not civilized.

Pentax is the smallest player in DSLR market and these guys are the ones who have stuck with Pentax depsite its limiations. Penatx should be going out of their way to keep these guys happy specially since they also play a great part in attracting more people to pentax brand. You on the other hand seem to be doing the exact opposite. I hope this is not the general Pentax attitude to its customers. I am frankly surprised by the willingness of this forum to tolerate your offensive tone just because you can give them some infromation
BEGIN RANT:

I'm not necessarily the longest-running member here, nor do I have the most posts (), but quite frankly, I am getting sick and tired of seeing posts like the above quoted. I have three words for you:

GET OVER YOURSELVES.

Sometimes, the truth hurts. Personally, I agree with everything JCPentax has said. Was he talking to a particular individual? No. He was generalizing his observations of these forums...and guess what? He's not the only one out there that feels this way. Spend some time in "other forums" and read what they have to say about "us" here. It's no secret. Does he/they mean EVERY SINGLE POSTER within this forum? Of course not (especially not those of us with less than 10 bloody posts!). There are a number of, shall we call them, "highly outspoken" members who's words carry far greater weight than, for example, mine would.

And here we have a guy, JCPentax, who OUTSIDE OF HIS JOB-DESCRIPTION and ON HIS OWN SPARE TIME takes it upon himself to be an "inside voice" for all of us here. How do "we" thank him? By calling him rude?? By taking personal offense to commentary that wasn't even directed at any "one" in particular? And then (this one is my favorite), drawing the beyond ridiculous conclusion that "if everyone at Pentax is this rude...", followed by the equally ridiculous insinuated threat of "then I won't buy Pentax...". Seriously...who the heck are you (or I) to feel entitled to having a company kiss (y)our arse(s) just so you can do them the "honour" of purchasing their products??

WOW. Seriously...come off it already. And we wonder how we've earned our illustrious reputation.

If you don't like JCPentax or HIS thread, then by all means, don't read it. Exactly what is it you hoped to accomplish by coming in here and posting what you did? Stirring a pot that has long settled is all I see. Good job. And yes, like it or not, it is the posts such as yours that prove and strengthen the impression JCPentax (and others) have of this forum. And please, spare me the "he could be nicer about it" crap. Heck, I could be "nicer" with this post myself (believe me, I'm trying ), but facts still remain facts. If you find yourself personally "insulted" by commentary and opinions made toward an online community you're a part of, then my friend, there seem to be far greater issues you should be addressing.

Yes, I am a member here. Yes, I do find plenty of useful information here. Yes, I am fully aware of it's pros and cons. Yes, I do intend on contributing much more in the future. And, yes, JCPentax, I very much appreciate your time and contribution to all of us here. Please don't let just the handful of these "holier than thou" personas dictate the level of appreciation myself (and I'm certain many, many others) have for you in this forum. Please keep up the excellent work!

END RANT.

(Sorry JCPentax...I just had to...)

Sincerely,
Paul

06-04-2009, 06:49 PM   #182
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You go GIRL!
06-04-2009, 07:02 PM   #183
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QuoteOriginally posted by random Quote
I am not a pentax user (yet) but do visit these forums regularly. I am frankly surprised by the willingness of this forum to tolerate your offensive tone just because you can give them some infromation
Some will sell their Grannies for Exif.
06-04-2009, 07:45 PM   #184
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WoW Man you have taken my post even more seriously then I took JCPentax's Looks like an apology is due on my part for hijacking the thread. I would seriously hate to see JCPentax stop providing information to this forum due to someone like me who is essentially an outsider.

Carry on please with the thread and happily ignore my comment


QuoteOriginally posted by Minawee Quote
BEGIN RANT:

I'm not necessarily the longest-running member here, nor do I have the most posts (), but quite frankly, I am getting sick and tired of seeing posts like the above quoted. I have three words for you:

GET OVER YOURSELVES.

Sometimes, the truth hurts. Personally, I agree with everything JCPentax has said. Was he talking to a particular individual? No. He was generalizing his observations of these forums...and guess what? He's not the only one out there that feels this way. Spend some time in "other forums" and read what they have to say about "us" here. It's no secret. Does he/they mean EVERY SINGLE POSTER within this forum? Of course not (especially not those of us with less than 10 bloody posts!). There are a number of, shall we call them, "highly outspoken" members who's words carry far greater weight than, for example, mine would.

And here we have a guy, JCPentax, who OUTSIDE OF HIS JOB-DESCRIPTION and ON HIS OWN SPARE TIME takes it upon himself to be an "inside voice" for all of us here. How do "we" thank him? By calling him rude?? By taking personal offense to commentary that wasn't even directed at any "one" in particular? And then (this one is my favorite), drawing the beyond ridiculous conclusion that "if everyone at Pentax is this rude...", followed by the equally ridiculous insinuated threat of "then I won't buy Pentax...". Seriously...who the heck are you (or I) to feel entitled to having a company kiss (y)our arse(s) just so you can do them the "honour" of purchasing their products??

WOW. Seriously...come off it already. And we wonder how we've earned our illustrious reputation.

If you don't like JCPentax or HIS thread, then by all means, don't read it. Exactly what is it you hoped to accomplish by coming in here and posting what you did? Stirring a pot that has long settled is all I see. Good job. And yes, like it or not, it is the posts such as yours that prove and strengthen the impression JCPentax (and others) have of this forum. And please, spare me the "he could be nicer about it" crap. Heck, I could be "nicer" with this post myself (believe me, I'm trying ), but facts still remain facts. If you find yourself personally "insulted" by commentary and opinions made toward an online community you're a part of, then my friend, there seem to be far greater issues you should be addressing.

Yes, I am a member here. Yes, I do find plenty of useful information here. Yes, I am fully aware of it's pros and cons. Yes, I do intend on contributing much more in the future. And, yes, JCPentax, I very much appreciate your time and contribution to all of us here. Please don't let just the handful of these "holier than thou" personas dictate the level of appreciation myself (and I'm certain many, many others) have for you in this forum. Please keep up the excellent work!

END RANT.

(Sorry JCPentax...I just had to...)

Sincerely,
Paul


06-05-2009, 01:38 AM   #185
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Back to topic please

Back to topic please. Here are the last few "K-7 Feature Questions" yet to be answered, so they aren't buried or left unnoticed:

QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
A nice easy Q for you John-
Does the camera come with those little leather looking thingys I've seen on some pics on the strap lugs to protect the camera from scratches?
QuoteOriginally posted by wolfier Quote
1. Is there still going to be 1 User mode ala K10/K20, or can multiple user modes be selected further down the menu?

2. Has the Bulb mode behaviour updated to be a 2-touch, or do people still have to keep their finger pressed on the shutter or the Remote-Control F during the entire Bulb exposure?

3. Can SR be restricted to horizontal or vertical only for panning shots?
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Just to repeat my question since it seems to have been missed.

Has the multiple exposure process been made any easier on the K-7? Will the USER mode remember that I want multiple exposures? Has multiple exposure been added to the drive modes?
QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
John: Will the K-7 be able to shoot tethered to Apple's Aperture 2 software?
06-05-2009, 07:09 AM   #186
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Spot metering

Hello John,

in the Pentax DSLRs up to date, spot metering was fixed in the center of the scene. With the 77-zone metering system of the K-7, is it now possible to move the spot meter around (i.e. make it "follow" the AF point in SEL mode ?).

A related question: with "Link AF point to AE" custom setting set to "On", does the Matrix meter become a simple spot meter, or does it keep using the full Matrix with a bias to the selected AF point (as described in the K10D manual).
06-05-2009, 08:04 AM   #187
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K-7 D-Range and ISO

The K20D has dynamic range extension, but it requires boosting the ISO from 100 to 200 to be activated. Does the various dynamic range options on the K-7 limit the ISO values that can be selected?

Has anyone played with the D-Range options to see how they compare with the K20D?
06-05-2009, 08:07 AM   #188
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Arpe Quote
A nice easy Q for you John-
Does the camera come with those little leather looking thingys I've seen on some pics on the strap lugs to protect the camera from scratches?
Yes it does.

06-05-2009, 08:08 AM   #189
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BTW, I want to add my voice to others who deeply appreciate JCPentax and his participation in this forum. I know that other manufacturers have tried to have representation in forums, but the representatives of the other manufacturers have been treated so badly that they have withdrawn support.

I think it is a good reflection on Pentax, JC and on the Pentax community that this relationship is possile.
06-05-2009, 08:08 AM   #190
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QuoteOriginally posted by soccerjoe5 Quote
John: Will the K-7 be able to shoot tethered to Apple's Aperture 2 software?
We have given a camera to Apple. What they do with it is up to them as far as software and tethering are concerned.
06-05-2009, 08:12 AM   #191
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Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by RBellavance Quote
Hello John,

in the Pentax DSLRs up to date, spot metering was fixed in the center of the scene. With the 77-zone metering system of the K-7, is it now possible to move the spot meter around (i.e. make it "follow" the AF point in SEL mode ?).

A related question: with "Link AF point to AE" custom setting set to "On", does the Matrix meter become a simple spot meter, or does it keep using the full Matrix with a bias to the selected AF point (as described in the K10D manual).
1) I don't think so. It will remain in the center.

2) It still uses the matrix and biases toward the focus point.
06-05-2009, 08:15 AM   #192
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfsavage Quote
The K20D has dynamic range extension, but it requires boosting the ISO from 100 to 200 to be activated. Does the various dynamic range options on the K-7 limit the ISO values that can be selected?

Has anyone played with the D-Range options to see how they compare with the K20D?
From my experience with the camera, it is pretty much the same as the K20D (not how it is accessed, but how it works.)
06-05-2009, 09:40 AM   #193
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfsavage Quote
The K20D has dynamic range extension, but it requires boosting the ISO from 100 to 200 to be activated.
That's kind of a misleading way of putting it, according to my understanding. It's not like the camera is arbitrarily preventing you from using ISO 100 - it's that the feature works by shooting underexposed at lower ISO and then pushing the results in its processing. Whatever ISO you specify, the camera actually shoots one stop slower. In order to allow you select ISO 100, that would require the camera to support ISO 50, but it doesn't.

In other words, when you use D-range at ISO 200, you really *are* shooting at ISO 100 (with one stop underexposure that is corrected in the processing in order to provide the greater range).
06-05-2009, 09:52 AM   #194
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QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
That's kind of a misleading way of putting it, according to my understanding. It's not like the camera is arbitrarily preventing you from using ISO 100 - it's that the feature works by shooting underexposed at lower ISO and then pushing the results in its processing. Whatever ISO you specify, the camera actually shoots one stop slower. In order to allow you select ISO 100, that would require the camera to support ISO 50, but it doesn't.

In other words, when you use D-range at ISO 200, you really *are* shooting at ISO 100 (with one stop underexposure that is corrected in the processing in order to provide the greater range).
Isn't this (partly) the other way around?

You actually shoot at 100 ISO and the camera increases sensitivity to 200 ISO (in shadow and middle tones) which gives an overexposure , which is compensated in post prosessing?
As I understand this, DR range kind of simulates "exposure to the right", without blowing high lights.
06-05-2009, 10:15 AM   #195
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I suppose the distinction really hinges on whether the analog amplifier is involved before the A/D conversion, as it would normally be when shooting ISO 200. And it seems to me it would *not* be when shooting at ISO with D-range turned on - otherwise, there would be no reason not to make ISO 100 available. Plus, that just isn't my understanding of how it works, based on descriptions provided by Pentax and analysis doen by GordonBGood over on dpreview.

So actually, D-range is kind of the *opposite* of expose to the right - it's more like "expose to the left". Because the goal here isn't to reduce noise, but rather to increase dyamic range. And indeed, as explicitly stated by Pentax, using this feature actually *increases* noise, exactly as you'd expect from an "expose to the left" methodology.

I'm not sure if this can be tested easily (without looking at the RAW data yourself), but it's trivial to verify this is how the similar features on Nikon, Canon, and Sony work - just try opening a RAW image shot using their similar options using a third-party RAW converter. You'll see it is underexposed. I believe that might not be true of Pentax because I heard they add some info that even third party converters might be able to use to apply a preprocessing curve (maybe just a fudged gamma value?) to make the image look normal on opening.

But assuming that what I'm saying is true, that does mean the "actual" ISO is 100 in terms of what is going on *physically* (by which of course I actually mean "electronically"), and it's the in-camera processing that is "faking" ISO 200 by pushing the results.
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