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06-24-2009, 03:52 AM   #31
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keep us posted please.. im about to buy a K2000

06-30-2009, 09:02 AM   #32
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i called pentax USA today and the answer that was given was that the minimum rate for the batteries used has to be 2500 mAh, and to retry using lithiums (eneloops are 2000 mAh). I didnt try this on vacation cause I did not think it would solve it.... but I'll try tonite. it seems questionable because wouldnt this mean that the the battery simply would not last as long because the capacity is lower?

They said to call back if it does not work.

Last edited by eyou; 06-30-2009 at 09:40 AM.
06-30-2009, 12:07 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyou Quote
i called pentax USA today and the answer that was given was that the minimum rate for the batteries used has to be 2500 mAh, and to retry using lithiums (eneloops are 2000 mAh). I didnt try this on vacation cause I did not think it would solve it.... but I'll try tonite. it seems questionable because wouldnt this mean that the the battery simply would not last as long because the capacity is lower?

They said to call back if it does not work.
As said b4, just try refreshly recharged Eneloop, and if that didn't work, u need a repair. Personally I am not keen on using lithium AA in Pentax DSLRs for safety reason (I know they are supported).
06-30-2009, 12:50 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by eyou Quote
i called pentax USA today and the answer that was given was that the minimum rate for the batteries used has to be 2500 mAh, and to retry using lithiums (eneloops are 2000 mAh). I didnt try this on vacation cause I did not think it would solve it.... but I'll try tonite. it seems questionable because wouldnt this mean that the the battery simply would not last as long because the capacity is lower?

They said to call back if it does not work.
To my opinion, the advise of Pentax USA is complete rubbish.
There is no minimum power rate for the K-m. The mAH of a battery, is the time, the battery can sustain a current, before the nominal Voltage drops below a certain level.
Charged NiMH batteries have a voltage(for each cell) of 1.2 regardless of the capacity.
The camera should work with any capacity batteries, albeit shorter with lower rated batteries (of course).
I'm afraid your camera is broken. Also: the cam must shutdown properly, when the batteries are exhausted!

06-30-2009, 12:52 PM   #35
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Please remember that the camera circuitry requires a minimum voltage.

Lithiums start life rated at 1.5V and most rechargeables only at 1.2V. (The batteries are likely to measure a higher voltage than that when new.) Different batteries show different rates of voltage drop so may fall below the required voltage before or after other batteries do.

Alkaline start at 1.5V but they cannot deliver a lot of power for very long. The voltage available drops very quickly. They have to be taken out and "rested" to allow the chemical reaction to work its magic and produce more power. Perhaps overnight is best. That can drive you nuts if you're shooting quite a bit. It did me.

In another arena, I think that Eneloops retain a higher voltage longer than standard NiMH rechargeables although they both start at 1.2V. And Eneloops certainly discharge (show voltage decrease) much more slowly than regular NiMH when they're just sitting around. The Eneloops may maintain a suitable voltage level longer as the curve representing the drop isn't very steep until later in the cycle.

The real story is that camera performance depends on a whole lot more than milli-amp hours. I got 1,300+ exposures on my first set of lithium AAs. I'm planning on sticking with that power source.

And I don't get the safety reference. I'm aware of problems with poorly-made Li-ion batteries but not lithium cells. Did I miss something here?
06-30-2009, 01:08 PM   #36
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Small Addition

QuoteOriginally posted by jantjooh Quote
To my opinion, the advise of Pentax USA is complete rubbish.
There is no minimum power rate for the K-m. The mAH of a battery, is the time, the battery can sustain a current, before the nominal Voltage drops below a certain level.
Charged NiMH batteries have a voltage(for each cell) of 1.2 regardless of the capacity.
The camera should work with any capacity batteries, albeit shorter with lower rated batteries (of course).
I'm afraid your camera is broken. Also: the cam must shutdown properly, when the batteries are exhausted!
I'm afraid we were writing our posts at the same time.

I agree that the camera should shut down properly but I've found that my K10D has shut down mid-exposure, mirror locked in the wrong place, when the third-party (CTA) battery was exhausted. Perhaps the battery's voltage fell off the cliff faster than Pentax had imagined (battery failure rather than normal discharge) or my camera is defective or the factory setting for self-shutdown is not optimum.

It certainly should begin a planned shutdown sequence while there is still power to perform it. I can imagine two voltage levels: #1 triggers the planned shutdown sequence. #2 triggers an emergency shutdown to prevent damage to the electronics. #1 and #2 should be different enough that #2 is not ever invoked, barring physical removal of the power source. I read somewhere on this forum that Pentax Canada had adjusted someone's DSLR, commenting on the sub-optimum factory setting. I suspect that would be point #1 if my entirely speculative power scheme is correct.
06-30-2009, 01:44 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by glanglois Quote
I'm afraid we were writing our posts at the same time.

I agree that the camera should shut down properly but I've found that my K10D has shut down mid-exposure, mirror locked in the wrong place, when the third-party (CTA) battery was exhausted. Perhaps the battery's voltage fell off the cliff faster than Pentax had imagined (battery failure rather than normal discharge) or my camera is defective or the factory setting for self-shutdown is not optimum.

It certainly should begin a planned shutdown sequence while there is still power to perform it. I can imagine two voltage levels: #1 triggers the planned shutdown sequence. #2 triggers an emergency shutdown to prevent damage to the electronics. #1 and #2 should be different enough that #2 is not ever invoked, barring physical removal of the power source. I read somewhere on this forum that Pentax Canada had adjusted someone's DSLR, commenting on the sub-optimum factory setting. I suspect that would be point #1 if my entirely speculative power scheme is correct.
Heheh, yes, altough my timezome is much ahead of yours.
Indeed strange thing may happen, in the way you describe.
For example a singe weak batt. in a set of 4.

Your comment on Lithium. There were bad Lithium -ION Polymer rechargable
powerpacks in the past.
Lithium-ion polymer battery - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
But these are not the same as the Lithium AA types that are not rechargable.
Maybe this is what you remember..
06-30-2009, 05:28 PM   #38
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Yes, the danger in lithium batteries is not with lithium primary (non-rechargeable) batteries; it's with lithium-ion and/or lithium-polymer rechargeable batteries, and even then, the risk is highly overrated (most instances of Li batteries exploding during charge is due to damaged batteries, such as a battery pack re-used in R/C planes after a crash, or when recharged as a pair when one is defective/mis-matched...always recharge Li batteries as a marked set, and occasionally test them).

On to the question of voltage vs current; the internal resistance of a battery also plays into this. NiMH batteries have all but taken over the spot held by NiCads, except in some high-current-demand situations. The internal resistance of NiCads is lower than that of any of the batteries discussed so far, and so they are able to supply a high current without dropping their voltage as much (Ohm's Law...V=IR). As such, they are still king in certain high-current applications, such as powering servos in robotics. But they weigh a lot more, and they have the infamous "memory effect."

All of this is a balancing act; you can have long life, high current, or constant output...pick any two.

But all the available current in the world is useless if the potential (voltage) drops too low for the electronic components to use. Gotta have both.


BTW, this is yet another advantage cameras with the "evil proprietary" batteries have over cameras using AA's...the proprietary batteries are matched to the load and demand. There's no worry about what consumers might substitute, and the device was designed knowing exactly what the power supply's capabilities are.

07-02-2009, 05:42 AM   #39
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Well, my K-m has failed again - similar to the original problem, but with a new twist. I just replaced the batteries with a fresh set of Energizer Advanced Lithiums. Turned the camera on - nothing! Turn off, then on, then off, and so on. Could not get the camera to activate. I opened the battery compartment door to check that the batteries were installed correctly - they were. When I closed the door the camera turned on! I had left the power switch in the on position.

Now I find that the only way to turn the camera on is to switch it on, then open and close the battery compartment door.

Apparently the previous fix by Pentax Canada was to replace the battery compartment door. Pentax is getting a bad name for itself, in my mind.

...Chris
07-02-2009, 06:28 AM   #40
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Don't give up mate.
Sounds like a different problem and needs to be rectified by the repairers properly.
You might be just unfortunate, but the brand isn't to blame.
07-02-2009, 09:53 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by kitkat Quote

Now I find that the only way to turn the camera on is to switch it on, then open and close the battery compartment door.



...Chris
Give it a try with my "temporary" fix (post #19). Will take only a few seconds.
Also wipe the golden springs carefully, they may be greasy..
07-02-2009, 11:13 AM   #42
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I just recently ordered a new K2000 and it should be arriving on Tuesday, hope this problem doesn't happen to me =/
07-02-2009, 11:35 AM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by jantjooh Quote
Give it a try with my "temporary" fix (post #19). Will take only a few seconds.
Also wipe the golden springs carefully, they may be greasy..
I sent the camera back to Pentax already.
07-07-2009, 08:02 AM   #44
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keep us posted on what pentax does repair wise to your k2k.

tnx
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07-08-2009, 05:00 PM   #45
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While I'm waiting for my K-m to come back from Pentax Canada, I decided to request some information.

On the pentax.ca Website, I used their consumer contact page to compose a question, stating that I had already sent my K-m in for repair, had it returned, only to fail again, after which I sent it back for warranty repair again. My question was, how many times does a Pentax camera have to be sent in for warranty repair before someone in Pentax decides to replace it.

The answer was priceless.

'Thank you for contacting Pentax regarding you're (sic) K-m. The technicians would have to physically look at the camera to determine what needs to be done for you. Generally, after 3 or 4 repair's, a replacment (sic) would be considered. Here is the information you will need to send the camera in for repair:...' followed with the US address!

Not only did the tech person not understand I was in Canada (what part of pentax.ca do they not understand), he/she did not read and understand what I wrote!

I feel that when I get the camera back I'll have to take it behind the barn and put it out of its misery. And I'll put the video on youtube.

ps I don't have any experience with other camera companies so I don't know if Pentax is worse than or just as bad as the others.
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