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04-30-2007, 07:41 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by windowseat Quote

I could not agree more. I have tested 5 DSLR's for a magazine here in holland togeher with 5 other photographers. The only one who comes close to the same feel is the Nikon D80. The worst is the Canon D400 which feels like something you get with a Mcdonalds happymeal.

Is that you on the cover?

05-03-2007, 05:38 AM   #17
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What weight has to do with "build quality"?

QuoteOriginally posted by Kemal Quote
I went to a local shop and handled the DSLR's from Nikon, Canon & Sony, specifically the xt, xti, d40, d80, Alpha and was really surprised. They felt like toys. The K10D feels like a real camera, if that makes any sense. The others and their build quality just does not compare. I couldn't get over how small they felt and the weight of the cameras.
Size, weight, ergonomics and finish and color of the outer plastic shell have nothing to do with "build quality". "Feels like toy" is just that - subjective perception.

That K10D weigh almost twice as XTi doesn't mean that it by definition built to higher standards, with more stringent QC, with better tolerances or uses more rugged chassis design or better materials. All cams you mentioned use basically same construction - internal metal chassis and an outer polycarbonate shell with metal lens mount. On the other hand 30D and D200 indeed use mag alloy shell that may (or may not) lead to higher rigidity.

There's no data to suggest that XTi has higher problem rate than K10D. Moreover, I bet if you drop on concrete floor from the same height both cameras chances are that K10D will suffer more damage simply because of its hefty weight.
05-06-2007, 12:22 PM   #18
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Buddy, let me tell you something. I DID drop my K10D from 5 feet onto a huge rock and then I fell on the camera- the damage was the glass element in the viewfinder was replaced by Pentax a few months ago.
Almost all the physical characteristics have everything to do with build quality. I never mentioned finish or color, so don't put words in my mouth- nobody gives a crap about color or finish.
And you need to reevaluate how a 10 mp, 1000 dollar (CDN) DSLR should be built and feel. If that thing that you are going to lug around isn't built solidly and has provisions for the weather- you need to have a talk with someone.
The K10D and its weight is not an accident by Pentax- that's the plastic and METAL frame that keeps the camera safe. I picked up all those other cameras and YES, if it feels like a goddamn toy, then the build quality is garbage. You can tell the frame and body will not survive a beating. You don't pay decent money for something that at least doesn't recognize the added safety of a substantial metal frame and makes your camera feel like a circuit board encased in a DSLR plastic shell.
You drop any camera and you are likely to suffer varying consequences- do NOT tell me that all those other cameras that are outweighed by a old SMC 50 mm lens have decent build quality. We're talking about the structural characteristics that make a camera solid. They do not, in any universe, stack up to the K10D.
05-06-2007, 01:08 PM   #19
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Metal chassis vs Metal Shell

QuoteOriginally posted by fast50 Quote
It stands up well against the 400D and D80, but sadly not against the magnesium bodied 30D and D200, but the K10D is much cheaper than those.
There are a number of pros and cons to each approach. The metal chassis keeps the integrity of the internals very well sorted agaist bangs and knocks and because the chassis is smaller it can also be made out of stronger material and expands/contracts less with temperature. The polycarbonate shell is still very strong and light but needs the chassis to provide rigidity. However it has excellent impact resistance because it flexes slightly which reduces internal shock, plus it has a very low coefficient of expansion. You can also remove and replace the shell more easily since it bolts to the chassis.

The all metal monocoque construction of the 30D and D200 on the other hand provide greater external rigidity for their overall weight but not necessarily better impact resistance since the shock is transmitted directly to the internals. They are also much more expensive to make (need to be stamped and milled and covered with a textured surface) compared to a plastic moulding which can be ready textured out of the mould. HOwever they may subjectively "feel" better.

Quality? Mass production cars have a monocoque metal chassis/shell like a 30D. Racing cars on the other hand have a stiff metal frame or tub chassis with all the bits bolted on and a light but tough fibreglass or kevlar shell. Quality?

I'd go for the racing car approach. In an accident, the panels fly off but can all be replaced and bolted on. The chassis normally survives intact.

05-06-2007, 01:32 PM   #20
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I've been shooting film for the past year and a half, and have an *ist DS on the way. All of my lenses are metal....i mean, the actual glass is glass, but the rest of it, metal. The kit lenses on the dSLRS in BestBuy feel like plastic!! I don't know, maybe I'm just a macho man, but I want things to have a heft to them. Not heavy, just hefty. Years ago, I bought a pretty heavy paintball gun. I loved it though, so i woudl walk around carrying it, lifting it up and down so I could get used to the weight, rather than settle for a lighter gun. Now, I'm so used to night heavy photo gear built out of metal that a super leightweight body that has no heft to it feels cheap and stupid to my hands. I'mhoping my *ist DS is comparably weighted to the cheap, manual Vivitar I've been using the past three months.
05-06-2007, 02:15 PM   #21
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Just curious, for those that have them, how does the K100D compare to the K10D build-wise?
05-06-2007, 04:16 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by SupremeMoFo Quote
The Canon build, and build quality, is terrible yes - the A100 is OK and the D80 is nearly as good as the K10D. That's what I found.
I find the D80 to surpass the K10D in many ways as far as build quality and feel.. the addition of the LCD screen protector is something I wished feverently for with the K10D.

Nikon's cameras are just damn solid.
05-06-2007, 05:04 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Artyste Quote
I find the D80 to surpass the K10D in many ways as far as build quality and feel.. the addition of the LCD screen protector is something I wished feverently for with the K10D.

Nikon's cameras are just damn solid.
I'm really impressed how you guys manage to determine build quality by feel and feel only

05-06-2007, 09:10 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Artyste Quote
I find the D80 to surpass the K10D in many ways as far as build quality and feel.. the addition of the LCD screen protector is something I wished feverently for with the K10D.
I find exactly the opposite. Although, if somebody told me I had to use a D80 instead of a K10D, I wouldn't cry too many tears. They're nice cameras, just as Pentaxes are.

And I definitely DON'T want the little plastic thingy on the back of the camara a la Nikon. There are better and less obtrusive ways to protect the screen. I happen to like these guys, as I use their product to protect the screens on our Topcon and Trimble dataloggers. You can scratch them - but you have to really work at it. I haven't managed to scratch one yet - including when I took an unplanned toboggan ride down a scree slope in alaska and arrested my slide with the datalogger...

If you treat your Pentax like that, the LCD screen will be the least of your worries.

http://www.shieldzone.com/item_description/PENK10DS.html
05-06-2007, 11:37 PM   #25
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My estimation for a good camera build doesn't have to pass your love test, Klopus. I field-tested how sturdy the K10D is by smashing it on a rock THEN falling on the camera. Go do that with the camera's I mentioned and see what happens.


QuoteOriginally posted by klopus Quote
I'm really impressed how you guys manage to determine build quality by feel and feel only
05-06-2007, 11:40 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rick Quote
I find exactly the opposite. Although, if somebody told me I had to use a D80 instead of a K10D, I wouldn't cry too many tears. They're nice cameras, just as Pentaxes are.

And I definitely DON'T want the little plastic thingy on the back of the camara a la Nikon. There are better and less obtrusive ways to protect the screen. I happen to like these guys, as I use their product to protect the screens on our Topcon and Trimble dataloggers. You can scratch them - but you have to really work at it. I haven't managed to scratch one yet - including when I took an unplanned toboggan ride down a scree slope in alaska and arrested my slide with the datalogger...

If you treat your Pentax like that, the LCD screen will be the least of your worries.

http://www.shieldzone.com/item_description/PENK10DS.html
Oh, I use peel offs.. but I just like the look of the clip-on ones for some reason. lol.

I'm weird. Always have been.
05-06-2007, 11:42 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by klopus Quote
I'm really impressed how you guys manage to determine build quality by feel and feel only
I'm impressed that you've managed to jump to this conclusion without having any idea of what I've done with, and to, various cameras.
05-07-2007, 02:45 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by CDP Quote
Just curious, for those that have them, how does the K100D compare to the K10D build-wise?
By my experience K100D/K110D has lowest build quality of all Pentax DSLRs up to date. But don't get scared that only means that others are pretty tough. I know my DS is and K10D appears to be even tougher. I came to this conclusion because my friend has a K100D and dust didn't hesitate to get behind glass protecting LCD screens while on the other hand I had to look very carefully to notice any dust behind glass protecting LCDs of my DS and as you can see from the pictures bellow I'm not sparing it.

05-07-2007, 01:34 PM   #29
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For those who think the 400D/XTi is stronger than the K10D. Would you want to subject your 400D to this kind of test done to a K10D? Or how about the D80, 20D and 30D for that matter?

Pentax k10d water resistant and SR test: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

I still find my K10D build quality to be superior to that of my old 20D I had. And the weather sealing backs that up.
05-07-2007, 03:08 PM   #30
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Hi all,
I'm new here, have read lots of reviews and posts on forums.
I'm busting to get the k10d, my only hesitation is lens support.
2nd choice is the 30d.
All the reviews state how tough this camera is, this is what I need.
Its great to read your comments as most of you folk who own one agree with the review statements.Hope I purchase this week.
Anyway just saying hello.
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