K-7 SR Activation Switch Absence Poll

Duck Dodgers · 06-02-2009, 04:13 PM

These cameras really need the option to reprogram a button or two; let the user decide what function he wants on the button. We can reprogram the e-dials (sorta), now just give us a button.

snostorm · 06-02-2009, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by kcmadr

I was looking at images of the K-7. I noticed the SR switch was missing, which led me to research whether it had SR or not. It does. So the SR activation must be buried in the menus somewhere. This is something I use intermittently all the time. The fact that it is buried in the menu is something I am mildly irritated over - for example with the white hot intensity of a thousand blazing suns.

The opinion poll I'm conducting is to find out what percentage of you out there would really miss the dedicated SR switch on the camera body, having instead to fiddle with the menus.

Option 1: I would definitely miss the dedicated SR switch on the camera body.
Option 2: I prefer rifling through menus to activate one of the most important features of my camera.
Option 3: I'm neither here nor there on the subject but I use SR often.
Option 4: I'm neither here nor there on the subject and I do not use SR often.

Or am I missing something?

I'll not participate int the poll. . . but it might not be as limiting as you think. I haven't gone over all the menu options, but switching back and forth might not be as cumbersome as you think. If there's a "memory switch" in the menus that allows the SR on/off setting to be memorized at power off, you can set it so that the memory is off and the camera defaults to SR on. When you shut SR off through the menu, all you'd have to do is turn the power off and then back on to reactivate SR.

For me this would be a blessing. I shoot big lenses and mostly use a tripod. I can't remember how many times I forgot to switch it back on. . .I can make switching SR off part of the process of setting up the tripod - Then all I'd have to do is make switching the power off part of the process when removing the cam from the pod and I'll be ready to roll with SR.

This is the trouble with trying to judge ease of use with a camera I've never held -- too hard to work out the drill. . . but I hope it works this way. . .

Scott

mickey · 06-02-2009, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by jacobsr

I feel that if SR stays on most of the time why have a button.

Exactly how I feel.
For the amount of time I have it on and hardly ever turn it off, a button reall isn't necessary on the body, imo.

jfsavage · 06-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

Only on a tripod. Otherwise SR is a great feature and one of the primary reasons to own a Pentax. Far better IMHO than IS or VR (more cost effective when looking at glass).

I could not agree more. I have friends who have committed to Canon and I watch them as the need for IS limits their lens choice.

This last week I was using the fisheye zoom with IS to get some interesting results. You can hand hold at such a slow speed that people and ocean waves blur. I can't see Canon or Nikon creating a stabilized fisheye anytime soon.

jfsavage · 06-02-2009, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by Duck Dodgers

These cameras really need the option to reprogram a button or two; let the user decide what function he wants on the button. We can reprogram the e-dials (sorta), now just give us a button.

Yes! I would love to be able to re-purpose some of the buttons, esp RAW. The ability to customize the OK button is great - I use it as a hard button for ISO.

kcmadr · 06-02-2009, 04:56 PM

I'm just asking for your opinions on the subject hence the "opinion poll".

I have no agenda...

I'm not trying to get the K-7 redesigned...

Just asking purely out of curiosity.

JCPentax · 06-02-2009, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by kcmadr

I'm just asking for your opinions on the subject hence the "opinion poll".

I have no agenda...

I'm not trying to get the K-7 redesigned...

Just asking purely out of curiosity.

Ya, but is it a valid question before anyone has used the camera? Humans (at least some) are extremely adaptable beings. I am sure once the camera comes out, people will want their K20D firmware updated to disable the SR switch.

PentaxPoke · 06-02-2009, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by kcmadr

I'm just asking for your opinions on the subject hence the "opinion poll".

I have no agenda...

I'm not trying to get the K-7 redesigned...

Just asking purely out of curiosity.

I think some of us are saying that your poll would have been much more interesting to all of us, and may have actually revealed opinion if you would have worded the poll more clearly, and with no bias. For example:

a) I will miss the SR switch
b) I am glad they did not include the SR switch
c) I don't care either way

In your poll, Option 1 is a legitimate choice. Option 2 ridicules people with an opinion different than Option 1 (hence the term "push poll" because your opinion is clear from the poll wording, and you are "pushing" Option 1). Options 3 and 4 are confusing (the poll was supposed to be about the switch, not about the use of SR.) and redundant with regards to the question about the SR switch.

BTW, love the P-51D in your sig line.

kcmadr · 06-02-2009, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

In your poll, Option 1 is a legitimate choice. Option 2 ridicules people with an opinion different than Option 1 (hence the term "push poll"). Options 3 and 4 are confusing, and redundant with regards to the question about the SR switch.

Thanks. I understand now. I will be less careless with my choice of words in future. And thanks to those who have responded - I see it's a topic with supporters on both sides of the fence and on the fence too.

Originally posted by PentaxPoke

BTW, love the P-51D in your sig line.

Thank you. I like it a lot. See this gallery link for my best panning shot of all time (same Mustang).

https://www.pentaxforums.com/gallery/images/1451/1_Excalibur_Landing_Edited_Smaller.jpg

PentaxPoke · 06-02-2009, 11:07 PM

Originally posted by kcmadr

Thank you. I like it a lot. See this gallery link for my best panning shot of all time (same Mustang).

https://www.pentaxforums.com/gallery/images/1451/1_Excalibur_Landing_Edited_Smaller.jpg

(At the risk of hijacking the thread) Beautiful shot. That is my favorite plane of the era (and maybe all time). Running a close second is the Spit, and the Lightning.

This is an example of where still photography is lacking. No still picture could do justice to the sound of that Merlin engine you must have heard when she flew by. I guess with the K-7, that won't be an issue.

Class A · 06-03-2009, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by Mike.P®

Can I ask why?
I do a lot of macro and never turn it off (apart from by mistake).

The optimal focal length value for shake reduction is Actual_Focal_Length*(1+magnification). If you shoot at very short distances, the magnification significantly influences the required focal length. Not sure if firmwares correct for this when they know about lens focus but in any event with manual lenses the SR mechanism will not make the correct compensation movements anymore. This doesn't matter if you keep the camera real steady anyhow.

There is a thread about this topic which also points to another
similar thread.

Class A · 06-03-2009, 06:45 AM

Originally posted by and

especially switches that makes it obvious to see what setting you have it set on

I agree that the direct visual feedback of a hardware button is difficult to beat.

I'm slightly surprised to see Pentax removing the "SR on/off" button. It may not be strictly be necessary, but it advertised a crucial advantage over competitive cameras. When customers tested cameras in a shop they were bound to wonder why that particular button was not on the competitor models.

Ratmagiclady · 06-03-2009, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by wolfier

Yes. It's one of the most important features, although I have no idea why you ever needs it to be turned off, unless you're on the tripod 50% of the time and cannot wait for 2 seconds.

I really used to keep the SR off as a default unless I knew I was being shaky: I have good hands and it was seeming to foul more shots than it saved... Until the firmware update: now that switch tends to get ignored a lot. I'd still just as soon it was there, though.

I suspect that a big reason that switch went into the menues is cause Pentax is now confident that the SR won't need to be turned off with any regularity. Let's hope they're right, if so.

soccerjoe5 · 06-03-2009, 11:15 AM

I like the switch, but there have been a number of times I switch it on/off accidentally.

About the absence of the switch, I'm willing to learn the new layout and user interface. After some time, it'll be second nature.

jedperkins · 06-03-2009, 04:49 PM

I find it funny that even with the poll bias in the way the choices were phrased, the poll authors prefered opinion as reflected in the bias is in a substantial minorty of the responses. It is barely the top result in the polls of all selections, and far less than 50% of all the selection. My rant is against bad polling practices. Horses for courses, I guess...

View Poll Results: What is your thought on the SR switch missing?
I would definitely miss the dedicated SR switch on the camera body.	44	35.20%
I prefer rifling through menus to activate one of the most important features of my camera.	36	28.80%
I'm neither here nor there on the subject but I use SR often.	41	32.80%
I'm neither here nor there on the subject and I do not use SR often.	4	3.20%
Voters: 125. You may not vote on this poll

06-02-2009, 04:21 PM	#32
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	You might be missing something. . . Originally posted by kcmadr I was looking at images of the K-7. I noticed the SR switch was missing, which led me to research whether it had SR or not. It does. So the SR activation must be buried in the menus somewhere. This is something I use intermittently all the time. The fact that it is buried in the menu is something I am mildly irritated over - for example with the white hot intensity of a thousand blazing suns. The opinion poll I'm conducting is to find out what percentage of you out there would really miss the dedicated SR switch on the camera body, having instead to fiddle with the menus. Option 1: I would definitely miss the dedicated SR switch on the camera body. Option 2: I prefer rifling through menus to activate one of the most important features of my camera. Option 3: I'm neither here nor there on the subject but I use SR often. Option 4: I'm neither here nor there on the subject and I do not use SR often. Or am I missing something? I'll not participate int the poll. . . but it might not be as limiting as you think. I haven't gone over all the menu options, but switching back and forth might not be as cumbersome as you think. If there's a "memory switch" in the menus that allows the SR on/off setting to be memorized at power off, you can set it so that the memory is off and the camera defaults to SR on. When you shut SR off through the menu, all you'd have to do is turn the power off and then back on to reactivate SR. For me this would be a blessing. I shoot big lenses and mostly use a tripod. I can't remember how many times I forgot to switch it back on. . .I can make switching SR off part of the process of setting up the tripod - Then all I'd have to do is make switching the power off part of the process when removing the cam from the pod and I'll be ready to roll with SR. This is the trouble with trying to judge ease of use with a camera I've never held -- too hard to work out the drill. . . but I hope it works this way. . . Scott

06-02-2009, 10:36 PM	#38
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by kcmadr I'm just asking for your opinions on the subject hence the "opinion poll". I have no agenda... I'm not trying to get the K-7 redesigned... Just asking purely out of curiosity. I think some of us are saying that your poll would have been much more interesting to all of us, and may have actually revealed opinion if you would have worded the poll more clearly, and with no bias. For example: a) I will miss the SR switch b) I am glad they did not include the SR switch c) I don't care either way In your poll, Option 1 is a legitimate choice. Option 2 ridicules people with an opinion different than Option 1 (hence the term "push poll" because your opinion is clear from the poll wording, and you are "pushing" Option 1). Options 3 and 4 are confusing (the poll was supposed to be about the switch, not about the use of SR.) and redundant with regards to the question about the SR switch. BTW, love the P-51D in your sig line. Last edited by PentaxPoke; 06-02-2009 at 10:54 PM.

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06-02-2009, 04:13 PM	#31
Duck Dodgers Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the 24½th Century! Photos: Gallery Posts: 439	These cameras really need the option to reprogram a button or two; let the user decide what function he wants on the button. We can reprogram the e-dials (sorta), now just give us a button.

06-02-2009, 04:27 PM	#33
mickey Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Japan Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 1,146	Originally posted by jacobsr I feel that if SR stays on most of the time why have a button. Exactly how I feel. For the amount of time I have it on and hardly ever turn it off, a button reall isn't necessary on the body, imo.

06-02-2009, 04:46 PM	#34
jfsavage Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 211	Originally posted by Peter Zack Only on a tripod. Otherwise SR is a great feature and one of the primary reasons to own a Pentax. Far better IMHO than IS or VR (more cost effective when looking at glass). I could not agree more. I have friends who have committed to Canon and I watch them as the need for IS limits their lens choice. This last week I was using the fisheye zoom with IS to get some interesting results. You can hand hold at such a slow speed that people and ocean waves blur. I can't see Canon or Nikon creating a stabilized fisheye anytime soon.

06-02-2009, 04:47 PM	#35
jfsavage Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 211	Originally posted by Duck Dodgers These cameras really need the option to reprogram a button or two; let the user decide what function he wants on the button. We can reprogram the e-dials (sorta), now just give us a button. Yes! I would love to be able to re-purpose some of the buttons, esp RAW. The ability to customize the OK button is great - I use it as a hard button for ISO.

06-02-2009, 04:56 PM	#36
kcmadr Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Albums Posts: 614 Original Poster	I'm just asking for your opinions on the subject hence the "opinion poll". I have no agenda... I'm not trying to get the K-7 redesigned... Just asking purely out of curiosity.

06-02-2009, 07:32 PM	#37
JCPentax Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 146	Originally posted by kcmadr I'm just asking for your opinions on the subject hence the "opinion poll". I have no agenda... I'm not trying to get the K-7 redesigned... Just asking purely out of curiosity. Ya, but is it a valid question before anyone has used the camera? Humans (at least some) are extremely adaptable beings. I am sure once the camera comes out, people will want their K20D firmware updated to disable the SR switch.

06-02-2009, 10:51 PM	#39
kcmadr Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Vancouver, BC Photos: Albums Posts: 614 Original Poster	Originally posted by PentaxPoke In your poll, Option 1 is a legitimate choice. Option 2 ridicules people with an opinion different than Option 1 (hence the term "push poll"). Options 3 and 4 are confusing, and redundant with regards to the question about the SR switch. Thanks. I understand now. I will be less careless with my choice of words in future. And thanks to those who have responded - I see it's a topic with supporters on both sides of the fence and on the fence too. Originally posted by PentaxPoke BTW, love the P-51D in your sig line. Thank you. I like it a lot. See this gallery link for my best panning shot of all time (same Mustang). https://www.pentaxforums.com/gallery/images/1451/1_Excalibur_Landing_Edited_Smaller.jpg

06-02-2009, 11:07 PM	#40
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Originally posted by kcmadr Thank you. I like it a lot. See this gallery link for my best panning shot of all time (same Mustang). https://www.pentaxforums.com/gallery/images/1451/1_Excalibur_Landing_Edited_Smaller.jpg (At the risk of hijacking the thread) Beautiful shot. That is my favorite plane of the era (and maybe all time). Running a close second is the Spit, and the Lightning. This is an example of where still photography is lacking. No still picture could do justice to the sound of that Merlin engine you must have heard when she flew by. I guess with the K-7, that won't be an issue.

06-03-2009, 06:39 AM	#41
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by Mike.P® Can I ask why? I do a lot of macro and never turn it off (apart from by mistake). The optimal focal length value for shake reduction is Actual_Focal_Length*(1+magnification). If you shoot at very short distances, the magnification significantly influences the required focal length. Not sure if firmwares correct for this when they know about lens focus but in any event with manual lenses the SR mechanism will not make the correct compensation movements anymore. This doesn't matter if you keep the camera real steady anyhow. There is a thread about this topic which also points to another similar thread.

06-03-2009, 06:45 AM	#42
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by and especially switches that makes it obvious to see what setting you have it set on I agree that the direct visual feedback of a hardware button is difficult to beat. I'm slightly surprised to see Pentax removing the "SR on/off" button. It may not be strictly be necessary, but it advertised a crucial advantage over competitive cameras. When customers tested cameras in a shop they were bound to wonder why that particular button was not on the competitor models.

06-03-2009, 09:22 AM	#43
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	Originally posted by wolfier Yes. It's one of the most important features, although I have no idea why you ever needs it to be turned off, unless you're on the tripod 50% of the time and cannot wait for 2 seconds. I really used to keep the SR off as a default unless I knew I was being shaky: I have good hands and it was seeming to foul more shots than it saved... Until the firmware update: now that switch tends to get ignored a lot. I'd still just as soon it was there, though. I suspect that a big reason that switch went into the menues is cause Pentax is now confident that the SR won't need to be turned off with any regularity. Let's hope they're right, if so.

06-03-2009, 11:15 AM	#44
soccerjoe5 Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Philippines Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,343	I like the switch, but there have been a number of times I switch it on/off accidentally. About the absence of the switch, I'm willing to learn the new layout and user interface. After some time, it'll be second nature.

06-03-2009, 04:49 PM	#45
jedperkins Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Boulder, CO, USA Posts: 28	I find it funny that even with the poll bias in the way the choices were phrased, the poll authors prefered opinion as reflected in the bias is in a substantial minorty of the responses. It is barely the top result in the polls of all selections, and far less than 50% of all the selection. My rant is against bad polling practices. Horses for courses, I guess...