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06-03-2009, 11:07 AM   #16
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1. i cannot find it used here (...), k20d and k10d, and even k100d, are very seldom to be found used too.
k200d + double kit + grip + some bag, all new, about 625euro with shipment (czech republic)

this is much worse than in the US, in the US you can almost get the k20d for that kind of money, i think. oh well..

2. that's true. but even with that in mind (i mean, accepting that trend, instead of puting it down as useless), by direct comparison, i couldn't find a match for the k200d at or around the same pricepoint, let alone something better.

3. well, it's not a 2-wheel interface like k20d/k10d, that's alright, the interface is very good as far as i remeber form the k100d (and it was improved on k200d with the green button and raw button, right?), and i certainly liked it better than the nikon entry levels (i will be quiet about canon ), the battery issue, as you said, is a non-issue in my opinnion too.

thanks for your thoughts

06-03-2009, 02:17 PM   #17
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Nanok, Just read the thread, so hopefully my input will help.

Personally I would say go for the K200D, due to the nice body, great images, the K20D menus and colour settings, and the weather sealing. Down sides are the limited number of new optics in comparison to the "big" two. However the availability of second hand optics are a boon. But that is my only opinion.

However, last year a friend and colleague of mine, was looking for an DSLR camera, so wanted my advice. He had a budget, and within that budget, there was the D60, K200D, EOS 400D and E-410. Although I recommended the K200D, I let him decide on the fact of "go with the one you feel most happy with". Now, after looking at various cameras, and what I was getting out of my Pentax cameras, he ended up on the K200D. But before he decided, he made the following comments.
On the Nikon, he found the body a bit small, the viewfinder a bit dim, and, upon reading, the restrictions of lenses that could be used.
The Canon, he found "too plasticy", and a poor hand grip.
The Olympus, he liked the build, the AF speed, (although lacking AF points) but was concerned about the IQ, and size.

So it was down to the Pentax. He liked the build, the fact that it had weather sealing, the AA batteries, the lens availabilty albeit second-hand, and above all, it felt so right in the hand.

So, although Pentax is not being pushed by the stores, when push come to shove, and someone places a Pentax on a short list, it ends up the one to go for.
And honestly, I did'nt push him to it, I let him choose himself, only giving him options.
06-03-2009, 02:37 PM   #18
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that's interesting. your firends feelings are identical to mine. i too found the oly as coming a close second in most areas, and certainly leaps and bounds above the canon/nikon in build quality and feel.

the lens availability i thought about as well, but i am rather skeptical about the validity of this (often pushed forward) point: there are plenty of lenses available from pentax (new), and, most importantly, a very comprehensive range. the only missing part right now is perhaps extreme telephoto, but if you can afford that, the price you payed for a k200d double kit is almost irrelevant, to be fair, and one can always get a bigma or something for k-mount anyway.

the primes are not to be underestimated, and the huge range of old and often cheap lenses available is a nice bonus too (imho, photography is all about lenses, that's what makes it fun, every lens has it's own character, focal length is not the only parameter, i feel it's such a great oportunity to be able to pick up old lenses and have fun experiemnting with them, giving them a new life, especially that, back when i was shooting film, i was very limited in the lenses department, and always dreamed of more, now i can admit the problem has become to carry them ; this was the main reason i gave up on the nikon i had, it was doing the job, but it just wasn't friendly and fun in this respect -- yeah, sure: you can get new lenses, and they are "better" and all, so what, let me choose)

i didn't push my friend either, i even insisted he tries an olympus in a shop, when we were there together, i wanted him to have every chance to chose different, but in the face of the plain facts, it was almost impossible to.

i hope he will be happy with the choice, the order is in, and we are (both) inpatiently waiting for delivery. if he ends up hating it, i'm doomed, being a pentax shooter and the obvious culprit :-P

thank you all for your honest thoughts, though nobody played the devils advocate as i hoped, at least i am content that i am not insane, and that the k200d is indeed the deal i see it to be.

i guess the moral to this storry (and yours, offertonhatter) is, as we have said many times here, pentax should find a way to enable more people to handle their cameras, and than their only problem will be to keep up with production
06-03-2009, 02:52 PM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by nanok Quote
3. well, it's not a 2-wheel interface like k20d/k10d, that's alright, the interface is very good as far as i remeber form the k100d (and it was improved on k200d with the green button and raw button, right?)
Yes it has those buttons, although I can't say they make a big difference to me. I shoot RAW all the time anyhow so the RAW button is wasted on me. The Green button I use a lot, but no more than AE-L button that does the same thing on the K100D (set shutter speed for selected aperture in M mode). The Green button might be slightly more conveniently located, but that's personal preference.

On the other hand, there are some improvements to the layout of the Fn menu that are nice.

Anyhow, I think the ergonomics of the K200d are fine - s you say, at least as good as the K100D. I actually love the feel of the camera, and while a more direct way to control ISO or a larger viewfinder would be nice, I don't miss them that much (and I *had* the better viewfinder with the DS).

06-03-2009, 02:57 PM   #20
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I'd go with that nanok
06-03-2009, 03:41 PM   #21
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marc: the raw button is as wasted on me with the k10d/k20d, i really wish they'd enable us to assign it to some other function instead (i have it set now to switch to jpeg, one time only, on the k20d, but i never find the need to do that, what's the point?), the green button i have only begun to explore lately, so i won't comment on that, but regardless of the functionality in one mode or another, or ability to use another button, i think it ought to be there, it's a pentax

i agree overall, the only improvements you could wish for in the k200d seem to be unreasonable (as in, "buy a damn k20d, do you want us to go out of business?"), and the camera, without those improvements (mainly: two wheel interface -- generally kx0d ergonomics, big pentaprism) is more than reasonable to use, actually, i'd take it any day instead of my k20d out shooting, and i would never (ahem.. make that "hardly ever") complain

the more i think about it, the more i am at risk of buying one myself before they become extinct :/

nanok, walking away "no more bodyes, no, no more, you don't need.. resist.."
06-03-2009, 04:13 PM   #22
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OK, I have to admit, I didnt read all the posts in this thread so forgive me if i'm being redundant. I own a k20d, 2 k10d's, a k200d, and a gx-1l (ist-dl). If the k200d had a second wheel, an af switch on the outside of the body, and took the k10/k20 batteries, I would own 5 k200d's. I love the feel of the k200d. I have med-large hands and the deep grip is sweet. The 10mp Sony sensor is better than the 14mp samsung from 100-400 iso (in my opinion). The one benifit from running the AA's is the battery grip is really cheap. My only gripe on the k200d is, everything is a bit slow. FPS, focusing, using the menu instead of dials or switches on the outside of the body. . . .With that being said, it's not slow compared to what your comparing it to.

06-03-2009, 04:34 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by reknelb Quote
OK, I have to admit, I didnt read all the posts in this thread so forgive me if i'm being redundant. I own a k20d, 2 k10d's, a k200d, and a gx-1l (ist-dl). If the k200d had a second wheel, an af switch on the outside of the body, and took the k10/k20 batteries, I would own 5 k200d's. I love the feel of the k200d. I have med-large hands and the deep grip is sweet.
i think the k-7 should be exactly what you have been waiting for. i am happy for you, you must be as giddy as a kid in a candy store since the official announcement

QuoteQuote:
The 10mp Sony sensor is better than the 14mp samsung from 100-400 iso (in my opinion).
i love the pentax/samsung cmos, absolutely adore it. so i kind of disagree. but, yes, it is very different from the sony (and, btw, what pentax does with that sony is, imho, unlike any other camera i have seen with that sensor, same goes for the 6mp one). so yes, i do agree, it is a matter of taste for the very most part, that sony sensor in a pentax is certainly lovely. pentax seems to "know something": when i found out the k20d will be cmos, i kind of freaked, and was a bit skeptical, the reason is how i feal about the canon images: the canon sensors are brilliant, best in the industry, and so on and so forth, but i simply hate the look, and i noticed i am very often able to tell them apart (at web size!) in a glimpse, it's that plastic look, hard to explain. i didn't have to worry, the k20d is no canon, pentax kept it pentax, just like they did with the sony sensor. this might be mostly curves and profiles tweaking, i don't know, but i am pleased. (i have seen cases where post processing done on the picture allowed me no chance to tell it apart, but in most cases, i could see the canon look from miles. take it with a grain of salt though)

QuoteQuote:
The one benifit from running the AA's is the battery grip is really cheap. My only gripe on the k200d is, everything is a bit slow. FPS, focusing, using the menu instead of dials or switches on the outside of the body. . . .With that being said, it's not slow compared to what your comparing it to.
that's the point i also made: compared to k20d, it is obviously different, but that's normal, it is placed different, and lower, if you compare to it's peers, they might trump it here and there (fps or other crap like that), but overall my impression was that, if anything, the competitors are worse.
06-10-2009, 05:53 PM   #24
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the case against k200d

Hello everyone,

I'm nanok's friend that was thinking a lot on the Pentax K200D. Now I am the proud owner of this camera you've been talking about . As nanok said, I am a newcomer in the DSLR world, I come from p&s world but since I felt I need more now I know that I did the right choice. The camera looks brilliant, it feels right in my hands with the grip mounted and the pictures are... great!

Thank you all for your kind comments and specially to nanok who opened this thread.

Last edited by joeydemayo; 06-10-2009 at 07:06 PM.
06-11-2009, 12:03 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by joeydemayo Quote
Hello everyone,

I'm nanok's friend that was thinking a lot on the Pentax K200D. Now I am the proud owner of this camera you've been talking about . As nanok said, I am a newcomer in the DSLR world, I come from p&s world but since I felt I need more now I know that I did the right choice. The camera looks brilliant, it feels right in my hands with the grip mounted and the pictures are... great!

Thank you all for your kind comments and specially to nanok who opened this thread.
I have the K200D and just this week sold my K100D........I can tell you the feel of the K200 is so much nicer than the K100. The size is just great for my hands and the grip fits like a glove. Unfortunately, my camera is in for repair right now (my fault) so I have nothing to use for a couple more weeks.

I think you're really going to enjoy your K200D!
06-11-2009, 12:15 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by joeydemayo Quote
Hello everyone,

I'm nanok's friend that was thinking a lot on the Pentax K200D. Now I am the proud owner of this camera you've been talking about . As nanok said, I am a newcomer in the DSLR world, I come from p&s world but since I felt I need more now I know that I did the right choice. The camera looks brilliant, it feels right in my hands with the grip mounted and the pictures are... great!

Thank you all for your kind comments and specially to nanok who opened this thread.
I hope you continue to be as happy with your Pentax as you are now, and please dont be a stranger to the forums. we have a wealth of knowledge here. you have a great friend.
06-13-2009, 12:18 PM   #27
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What about AF micro-adjustment?

I'm in a similar position as Nanok - trying to decide between the k200 and k20. My plan is to upgrade to a K7 at some point but want to get started sooner than later on a P system (my first SLR) and start taking pictures and learning this summer. I figure I won't lose too much when I sell the K200/K20 and the price of the K7 has come down a bit.

I was leaning towards the K200 since I'm fine with less MP, a smaller OVF, AA batteries (I have a lot of good ones already), and slower fps and I actually prefer the smaller size since many of my photos will be will while hiking/climbing/etc.

However, one difference that no one has mentioned so far is the AF micro-adjustment feature which is only on the K20. The thought of spending a big chunk of change on a body and decent lens (17-70?, 28-75?) with the possibility of front/back focus issues that I can't fix myself is disconcerting. How important do you think this is? The last think I want to do with with my new camera and lens is to have to send it back to P for calibration - and possibly again later when I get more lenses?

If anyone has thoughts on the value of this feature, I would appreciate your insight. Right now, the cost difference is about $150 US between the two. Is micro AF adjustment worth the added cost and size of the K20? Thanks in advance!
06-13-2009, 12:53 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by offertonhatter Quote
Nanok, Just read the thread, so hopefully my input will help.

Personally I would say go for the K200D, due to the nice body, great images, the K20D menus and colour settings, and the weather sealing. Down sides are the limited number of new optics in comparison to the "big" two. However the availability of second hand optics are a boon. But that is my only opinion.

However, last year a friend and colleague of mine, was looking for an DSLR camera, so wanted my advice. He had a budget, and within that budget, there was the D60, K200D, EOS 400D and E-410. Although I recommended the K200D, I let him decide on the fact of "go with the one you feel most happy with". Now, after looking at various cameras, and what I was getting out of my Pentax cameras, he ended up on the K200D. But before he decided, he made the following comments.
On the Nikon, he found the body a bit small, the viewfinder a bit dim, and, upon reading, the restrictions of lenses that could be used.
The Canon, he found "too plasticy", and a poor hand grip.
The Olympus, he liked the build, the AF speed, (although lacking AF points) but was concerned about the IQ, and size.

So it was down to the Pentax. He liked the build, the fact that it had weather sealing, the AA batteries, the lens availabilty albeit second-hand, and above all, it felt so right in the hand.

So, although Pentax is not being pushed by the stores, when push come to shove, and someone places a Pentax on a short list, it ends up the one to go for.
And honestly, I did'nt push him to it, I let him choose himself, only giving him options.
My daughter (40 year old PhD) asked for advice on which interchangeable lens DSLR she should buy. Although I am a "Die Hard Pentaxian" according to that website, I wrote out the advantages and disadvantages of a selection of brands: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax, and Sony. I was as honest as I could be. I included the perceptions I had gotten from students in a recent course. Their cameras included a Canon XTi, Sony a100, Nikon D90, Nikon D60. My daughter knows, of course, that I am a Pentaxian through and through, but I warned her anyway.

The first paragraph suggested that she should check out her friends' cameras and buy the one that matched the friend with the most lenses to borrow. The alternative mentioned was Daddy's lenses, of course.

The second criteria was to go to a reliable store - in this case McBain Camera in Edmonton - and pick all of them up and try them out. Take whichever felt better and was easy to operate.

She spent at least a month reading reviews and at the end tried the ones she found met her first criteria. The lady is a researcher, after all. She picked the K200d with kit 18-55 II.

She brought it down for a visit over Victoria Day weekend. Daddy, of course, had to try it out. I found it smaller than I like, but very intuitive to operate, and fitted with the kit lens easy to hold. With the kit lens, compared to my K10 + D-BG2 grip + DA* 16-50, the K200d was a point and shoot in weight and size. I didn't notice the viewfinder drawbacks due to the pentamirror. Tanya will use the scene modes for most of her shooting.
06-13-2009, 02:55 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by der Quote
However, one difference that no one has mentioned so far is the AF micro-adjustment feature which is only on the K20. The thought of spending a big chunk of change on a body and decent lens (17-70?, 28-75?) with the possibility of front/back focus issues that I can't fix myself is disconcerting. How important do you think this is?
Exactly as important as it has been on every other AF camera produced since the dawn of AF in the 1970's. Which is to say, no one had it, no one complained for decades. If your camera or lens misfocuses so badly that it can be considered defective, get it fixed/replaced under warranty. Otherwise, welcome to world of AF as it has always been - very very good but not necessarily *perfect* down to the millimeter.

Last edited by Marc Sabatella; 06-13-2009 at 10:36 PM.
06-13-2009, 03:51 PM   #30
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A very appropriate thread, as I'm deciding between the K20D and the K200D myself.

This has to be the best price I've seen so far for the K20D.
$705.40 USD for the K20D body, an extra battery, a 2 GB card and a small case.
IPXK20DA Pentax K20D Digital SLR Camera Kit, with 2 GB SD Memory Card, Spare DL-150 Type Lithium-Ion Rechargeable Battery, Camera Case

Here's a recent photo taken with my K100D and DA70mm. F2.8 @ 1/250 sec hand-held.


Can anyone tell me how much sharper this photo would have been had it been taken with the K20D?

Thanks,
Mike
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