Split screen viewing limitation qestion

winglik · 06-09-2009, 08:52 PM

Hi all, i have a question about split screen, i have several old SLR cameras(ME Super and KS Super II), one has horizontal split screen, one has diagonal split screen. And i have one of those ebay horizontal split screen on my DSLR. Looks like at any aperture over f8, it's not usable, even under very bright lighting. Is that true for all split screen, if so, is there any solution to this issue? thanx

stevebrot · 06-09-2009, 09:42 PM

Yes, that is pretty much the case. The Katz Eye screen resists black out better than most, but is not completely immune. The big question is why anyone would want to be focusing at those narrow apertures.

Steve

Duck Dodgers · 06-10-2009, 05:17 AM

Doesn't the split screen on your film cameras do the same thing? That's always been an issue with split prism screens; it's the reason they added the "micro-prism" collar back in the sixties. The only "cure" is to either better align your eye in the finder, or use a faster lens (I'm assuming you're using a long telephoto lens and f/8 is already your max aperture).

**Lowell Goudge** · 06-10-2009, 06:50 AM

As others have stated the Katz Eye screen is reported to be better, but the problem has always existed, that is why I bought my KX specifically with a ground glass screen, so I could easily focus my 1000 mm F10 Mirror

woof · 06-10-2009, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by winglik

Hi all, i have a question about split screen, i have several old SLR cameras(ME Super and KS Super II), one has horizontal split screen, one has diagonal split screen. And i have one of those ebay horizontal split screen on my DSLR. Looks like at any aperture over f8, it's not usable, even under very bright lighting. Is that true for all split screen, if so, is there any solution to this issue? thanx

The simple solution is suggested by... years of experience with manual cameras.

My Nikkormat FT2, all my Nikon Fs and several other cameras, including a Spotmatic I have with a split screen, ALL black out around f/8, and I'd guess that if your older cameras don't its because they use open aperture metering. Hint, hint. "Open Aperture."

Read any Pentax manual of the Spotmatic era. Refer to the section where they discuss "Bright Field Focusing."

The idea is... focus with the lens wide open, then stop down. This is particularly easy with Auto Takumars, because in essence you set it to Auto, focus, set it to manual, meter and shoot. The truth is that at f/8 it is hard to focus anyway. Do it old school.

Quoting:

"Bright field focusing

1. You can start viewing and focusing before and after cocking the rapid wind lever. When the preview lever is in "A" (automatic) position, and the meter is at "OFF the diaphragm is fully open except for the moment of exposure.

2. Turn the distance scale ring until your subject image is clearly in focus. It is not always necessary for you to view and focus with the diaphragm fully open. In bright sunlight, you can easily focus with diaphragm closed to f/5.6 or f/8, and still observe the depth of field. It is easier, however, to focus with the diaphragm fully open as your subject image is much brighter. When the letter "M" appears beside the lever, the lens is in manual position; when "A" appears, it is in automatic position. " Please see: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/pentax/pentax_spotmatic/pentax_spotmatic.htm

woof!

winglik · 06-10-2009, 07:45 AM

Thanx all for the info.

pbo · 06-10-2009, 09:08 AM

How do you use micro-prism collar, by th way?

Mister Guy · 06-10-2009, 11:24 AM

Using the microprism ring just takes some practice. Similar to the split prism, you basically adjust until you can't see it any more.

PentaxPoke has a great review of the KatzEye screen here that shows the effect.

Duck Dodgers · 06-10-2009, 11:50 AM

Yeah, the micro-prism collar is "kinda" like coarse ground glass/matte screen. Kinda. It will black out, too, but normally after the split-prism does.

Daveinozbikes · 06-11-2009, 04:05 AM

I tried all of them. Went back to OEM screen with a viewfinder magnifier......ahhh..the peace AND ...I can see what I"m looking at....:-)

06-09-2009, 08:52 PM	#1
winglik Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 258	Split screen viewing limitation qestion Hi all, i have a question about split screen, i have several old SLR cameras(ME Super and KS Super II), one has horizontal split screen, one has diagonal split screen. And i have one of those ebay horizontal split screen on my DSLR. Looks like at any aperture over f8, it's not usable, even under very bright lighting. Is that true for all split screen, if so, is there any solution to this issue? thanx

06-10-2009, 05:17 AM	#3
Duck Dodgers Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the 24½th Century! Photos: Gallery Posts: 439	Doesn't the split screen on your film cameras do the same thing? That's always been an issue with split prism screens; it's the reason they added the "micro-prism" collar back in the sixties. The only "cure" is to either better align your eye in the finder, or use a faster lens (I'm assuming you're using a long telephoto lens and f/8 is already your max aperture). Last edited by Duck Dodgers; 06-10-2009 at 08:16 AM.

06-10-2009, 07:11 AM	#5
woof Inactive Account Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: In the present Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,870	Old School Answer Originally posted by winglik Hi all, i have a question about split screen, i have several old SLR cameras(ME Super and KS Super II), one has horizontal split screen, one has diagonal split screen. And i have one of those ebay horizontal split screen on my DSLR. Looks like at any aperture over f8, it's not usable, even under very bright lighting. Is that true for all split screen, if so, is there any solution to this issue? thanx The simple solution is suggested by... years of experience with manual cameras. My Nikkormat FT2, all my Nikon Fs and several other cameras, including a Spotmatic I have with a split screen, ALL black out around f/8, and I'd guess that if your older cameras don't its because they use open aperture metering. Hint, hint. "Open Aperture." Read any Pentax manual of the Spotmatic era. Refer to the section where they discuss "Bright Field Focusing." The idea is... focus with the lens wide open, then stop down. This is particularly easy with Auto Takumars, because in essence you set it to Auto, focus, set it to manual, meter and shoot. The truth is that at f/8 it is hard to focus anyway. Do it old school. Quoting: "Bright field focusing 1. You can start viewing and focusing before and after cocking the rapid wind lever. When the preview lever is in "A" (automatic) position, and the meter is at "OFF the diaphragm is fully open except for the moment of exposure. 2. Turn the distance scale ring until your subject image is clearly in focus. It is not always necessary for you to view and focus with the diaphragm fully open. In bright sunlight, you can easily focus with diaphragm closed to f/5.6 or f/8, and still observe the depth of field. It is easier, however, to focus with the diaphragm fully open as your subject image is much brighter. When the letter "M" appears beside the lever, the lens is in manual position; when "A" appears, it is in automatic position. " Please see: http://www.butkus.org/chinon/pentax/pentax_spotmatic/pentax_spotmatic.htm woof! Last edited by woof; 06-10-2009 at 07:23 AM.

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06-09-2009, 09:42 PM	#2
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Yes, that is pretty much the case. The Katz Eye screen resists black out better than most, but is not completely immune. The big question is why anyone would want to be focusing at those narrow apertures. Steve

06-10-2009, 06:50 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	As others have stated the Katz Eye screen is reported to be better, but the problem has always existed, that is why I bought my KX specifically with a ground glass screen, so I could easily focus my 1000 mm F10 Mirror

06-10-2009, 07:45 AM	#6
winglik Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: NYC Posts: 258 Original Poster	Thanx all for the info.

06-10-2009, 09:08 AM	#7
pbo Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 891	How do you use micro-prism collar, by th way?

06-10-2009, 11:24 AM	#8
Mister Guy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 244	Using the microprism ring just takes some practice. Similar to the split prism, you basically adjust until you can't see it any more. PentaxPoke has a great review of the KatzEye screen here that shows the effect.

06-10-2009, 11:50 AM	#9
Duck Dodgers Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: in the 24½th Century! Photos: Gallery Posts: 439	Yeah, the micro-prism collar is "kinda" like coarse ground glass/matte screen. Kinda. It will black out, too, but normally after the split-prism does.

06-11-2009, 04:05 AM	#10
Daveinozbikes Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Dawesville,Western Australia. Photos: Gallery Posts: 128	I tried all of them. Went back to OEM screen with a viewfinder magnifier......ahhh..the peace AND ...I can see what I"m looking at....:-)

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