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06-15-2009, 04:16 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
This may sound stupid but I've yet to see a K-7 image (processed or not) that bowls me over with crispness.
It may be best to wait til final firmware, but did you see the parrots I posted here?

Question for Falconeye, can you put a flashgun on the K-7 at low power, and see if it will flash at 5FPS please? Would like to know if you are getting the same response we are.

06-15-2009, 04:40 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Do you prefer it over the K20D in terms of getting a comfortable grip and reaching all controls with ease?

I guess this thread isn't the blog, so where is the blog you are referring to?
The blog is in
Falk Lumo
and the link now is in my signature, too. I updated the initial post so it is easier to find.

As for the grip ... I have a K20D with the Japanese/Europe-only large grip. The K-7 is somewhere in between the original and the large K20D grip. Which is just right for me. It shouldn't be long before first units show up in stores, I guess. I hope you can try one out soon

The controls are nice, except ... There is one detail about the controls I don't like (and I'll post separately about some time): the mode dial lock button. In an attempt to simultaneously press the lock button and change mode with one hand only, I have now twice inadvertently shifted the metering mode from matrix to spot. I predict a nice number of underexposed images because of this ...

Now, that I know it, I can avoid it. But, the mode dial lock button (or MDLB for short) is not going to stay

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I've yet to see a K-7 image (processed or not) that bowls me over with crispness. I have downloaded some of your originals and tried to sharpen them but before the crispness sets in I'm looking for, the artefacts show up. My K100D produces images with more detail then the ones I've seen so far from the K-7.
I made a number of observations which I haven't drawn a conclusion yet. The third bullet point in my initial post is there for a reason

As for my samples, they are shot with the kit lens (it was raining ...). My girl friend's K-m got a DA 40mm Ltd. (and an umbrella ) Also, the JPG engine is certainly not final yet.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Also, I noticed that when I crank up levels in an attempt to sharpen the image, I start to see a strange criss-cross pattern (zoom in on the window and (un-)sharpen to the max). Is that the Lightroom demosaicing algorithm showing through? It looks odd.

P.S.: Let us know if you'd prefer having in-depth discussions somewhere else to keep this a clean "K-7 report" thread.
I actually don't know exactly what you are referring to. With max. sharpening/contrast, there are textures which can be up to 16px large. But I believe this is the same when noise from a K20D is pushed to the max. Not sure, though.

I like discussion in this thread. The "clean" overview can be obtained by clicking on the blog link. This should do it.
06-15-2009, 04:57 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unlocker Quote
It may be best to wait til final firmware, but did you see the parrots I posted here?
You mean the photo already carrying the title "most beautiful K-7 photo ever"?

It is a wonderful image.

I sometimes use FocusMagic's "auto-detect blur size" to evaluate image sharpness (only works with images which haven't been sharpened already, i.e., best with RAWs). For your first 100% crop, it says 1-2px. This is very good. But ultimate crispness is at 0px. Only very few lenses (and much luck) can do this on a K20D. Much easier with a 10MPixel camera, of course, and quite frequent with 6MP...
QuoteOriginally posted by Unlocker Quote
can you put a flashgun on the K-7 at low power, and see if it will flash at 5FPS please? Would like to know if you are getting the same response we are.
I'll see what I can do. My answer would apply to a Sigma EF 500 DG Super, only. If you know of a particular trick to minimize the power per strobe, then tell me...
06-15-2009, 05:04 PM   #19
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K-7 and its continous autofocus -- PART I

New blog entry:
K-7 and its continous autofocus -- PART I


This is a rather extensive article and may be a bit long to post in full size here. So, jumping to the end ...

Summary and verdict:

The K-7 makes about 50% more good images and about 50% less bad images than the K20D in this test. This looks like a lot. But believe me: when I first saw the images, I thought ... "where the hell is the difference"? Both cameras for sure can capture driving cars except when they are very nearby. The difference is subtle more than evident. But on the other hand, it is significant enough to score side by side with a D300. Seems others also put their pants on one leg at a time. In practical terms, the AF.C will still fail in many situations when one would wish otherwise...

Additionally, the systematic errors in my test are large. So, let's me say it this way then:

The AF.C on the K-7, compared to the K20D, is an improvement making it significantly coming closer to the performance of a D300. How close exactly it comes, I don't know. Could be very close, or not.

This concludes PART I. Part II will study, in a just a bit less formal way, what happens with people running randomly around you ...

[IMGWIDELEFT]http://falklumo.smugmug.com/photos/564766748_tZgzi-X3.jpg[/IMGWIDELEFT]



Last edited by falconeye; 06-15-2009 at 05:18 PM.
06-15-2009, 06:04 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Unlocker Quote
Idid you see the parrots I posted here?
Now I have to go back to my post and edit it. Now I've seen K-7 images which can at least turned into ones that look crisp. Great job! Did you use a tripod? While I still find them too soft as originals, they take sharpening well and indeed carry a lot of detail. I think I can put my worries to rest, although I would have liked to play with an original to be entirely sure.

I'm a bit concerned about the apparent default settings and DPR. If they stick to their policy of evaluating a camera based on default JPG settings then we may read things like "JPEG quality only so so".
06-15-2009, 07:19 PM   #21
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Thanks for all your efforts. It looks like alot of work.
I just have one question...Being in Germany, home to some of the finest cars on the road, how in the heck did you end up photographing a Chrysler LeBaron convertible of all things?
06-15-2009, 07:40 PM   #22
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Nice AF test. I'm very much looking forward to your low light AF test. AF-C seems plenty good enough.
06-15-2009, 08:28 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The blog is in
Falk Lumo
and the link now is in my signature, too.
Thanks.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I guess. I hope you can try one out soon
One dealer didn't want to order one unless I committed to buying it before ("too expensive to sell it to average people on the street", he did have some higher-speced Nikons on the shelf, though .)
I hope I have more luck with others...

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
There is one detail about the controls I don't like (and I'll post separately about some time): the mode dial lock button.
The minute I saw it I thought this is an unnecessary complication. I was amazed to see many report that they often found their dial to be in a different position after having stored the camera in the bag. This has never happened to me once and frankly I cannot imagine how you'd have to handle a camera for this to happen.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
I actually don't know exactly what you are referring to.
The noise isn't random but it looks like the image is composed of myriads of ~4px long vertical and horizontal threads. You see the "little worms" almost everywhere in the "better stay dry" image. Sharpen pretty aggressively and zoom in to ~300% and they will be in your face. They are less pronounced in the "unexpected flower" shot, but can still be observed. They look like a combination of some structure in the noise and a demosaicing algorithm trying to make sense of it.


Last edited by Class A; 06-15-2009 at 08:40 PM.
06-15-2009, 09:08 PM   #24
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Great shots Falconeye! Thanks for the write ups so far and I love the demo of the continuous AF test. Very creative and succinct way of displaying the shots!

Keep up the good work!
06-15-2009, 10:09 PM   #25
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What do you think?
If K-7 has weaker AA filter than K20D or not?
06-15-2009, 10:46 PM   #26
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Looking promising

and this is only with the preproduction firmware and camera. Looking forward to the final product!

Thank you!

Nic
06-16-2009, 12:41 AM   #27
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Thanks a lot for the AF test, part I. I very much appreciate the fact that you based your test on the very similar autofocus test involving the K20D and competitors.

QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
This concludes PART I. Part II will study, in a just a bit less formal way, what happens with people running randomly around you ...
May I dream that part III will be about AF accuracy? I'd also like to learn if liveview can be used to obtain optimum focus in critical situations (and calibrate the standard AF). An "AF accuracy" part would be too good to be true and with your user name you cannot really afford not to cover all aspects of making sharp images.

Last edited by Class A; 06-16-2009 at 01:34 AM.
06-16-2009, 01:10 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Now I have to go back to my post and edit it. Now I've seen K-7 images which can at least turned into ones that look crisp. Great job! Did you use a tripod? While I still find them too soft as originals, they take sharpening well and indeed carry a lot of detail. I think I can put my worries to rest, although I would have liked to play with an original to be entirely sure.

I'm a bit concerned about the apparent default settings and DPR. If they stick to their policy of evaluating a camera based on default JPG settings then we may read things like "JPEG quality only so so".
Thanks!

They were hand held from approx 5-6 feet away.
06-16-2009, 01:17 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
You mean the photo already carrying the title "most beautiful K-7 photo ever"?

It is a wonderful image.

I'll see what I can do. My answer would apply to a Sigma EF 500 DG Super, only. If you know of a particular trick to minimize the power per strobe, then tell me...
Now, I'm blushing, thanks for the compliment.

With mine (Metz 58), just took it out of PTTL, put it into manual and set power at say 1/32 or 1/64, this way you can expect a lot of flashes before it needs to recharge. The K-7 I have, and the one at SRS (UK) both seem to drop down to around 3FPS. We think it's a pre-production bug, and hope it's fixed in final firmware.

The only reason I found out is that I was out with the press circus at a magistrates court, and checked this before I went. Ended up not taking the flash in case anyone asked questions about the camera! Even with 3 film crews there, none of the footage was broadcast, so I didn't manage to get the K-7 on the telly. Better luck next time!
06-16-2009, 02:24 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Driver3 Quote
I just have one question...Being in Germany, home to some of the finest cars on the road, how in the heck did you end up photographing a Chrysler LeBaron convertible of all things?
Easy to answer. With all the fine German cars on the road, I needed something to stand out from BMW made ... here. Made it easy and fun to photograph. This isn't my long distance trip car.
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I was amazed to see many report that they often found their dial to be in a different position after having stored the camera in the bag.
Now, the mode dial doesn't change but the exposure mode dial does. Much harder to spot...
QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The noise isn't random but it looks like the image is composed of myriads of ~4px long vertical and horizontal threads.
I see what you mean. I've noticed it and it is what I meant by 16px large textures (surrounded by those threads you are talking about). I am not sure but I thought I get this on K20D as well. It happens if you heavily sharpen a noise floor. It may be unavoidable for mathematical reasons, but I am really not sure.

I wanted to look into this when I get the final firmware (announced for later this week).
QuoteOriginally posted by FotoPete Quote
Keep up the good work!

QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
What do you think?
If K-7 has weaker AA filter than K20D or not?
3rd bullet point on my list in the original post... I don't know yet. The AA filter may have changed because it now supports the supersonic cleaning vibration.
QuoteOriginally posted by solar1 Quote
and this is only with the preproduction firmware and camera. Looking forward to the final product!
I believe that there won't be much changes in the AF department for the final firmware. Which is why I already made the test. From what I heard :ugh:, the final firmware will differ in the treatment of noise. But AF may be final already. Disclaimer: this is belief from insiders, not facts.
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