Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
06-17-2009, 09:05 AM   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 171
Make K20D function as in Nikon's dslr (load curves)?

Yesterday night, as usual, I browse the web and check where can I find some good images (to learn the technique and composition).
I found one (from Hong Kong) and I think the color and tones in his pics are amazing. You may find some pics via
fotologue : gallery : KAGA0401

I emailed the author and he told me that he is using Nikon's dslr.
Most of the tech are: multiple exposure, filter, load curves and some post-processing

I checked my K20d and see whether I can achieve similar effects.
I think what we can do with Pentax's dslr are changing the image parameters (like sth mentioned here
Pentax K20D Review: 13. Features: Digital Photography Review)

However, I think it's not so easy as compare to loading curves like Nikon's one.
Anyone spent time to study the use of these image parameters?
Would u pls share some experience?
thx in advance.

06-17-2009, 09:32 AM   #2
Site Supporter




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Prince George, BC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,255
If you want to experiment with curves, shoot RAW and do it in post-processing. I know UFRaw can load any input profile you want to. I think you are stuck with Pentax's canned profiles if you want to do in-camera processing.
06-17-2009, 10:22 AM   #3
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by yipchunyu Quote
Yesterday night, as usual, I browse the web and check where can I find some good images (to learn the technique and composition).
I found one (from Hong Kong) and I think the color and tones in his pics are amazing. You may find some pics via
fotologue : gallery : KAGA0401

I emailed the author and he told me that he is using Nikon's dslr.
Most of the tech are: multiple exposure, filter, load curves and some post-processing

I checked my K20d and see whether I can achieve similar effects.
I think what we can do with Pentax's dslr are changing the image parameters (like sth mentioned here
Pentax K20D Review: 13. Features: Digital Photography Review)

However, I think it's not so easy as compare to loading curves like Nikon's one.
Anyone spent time to study the use of these image parameters?
Would u pls share some experience?
thx in advance.
I've tried for a few years to get Pentax's attention re: this and importing wB coefficients and global metering adjustments.. It's not working...
My guess is they just consider this "pro" territory and concentrate on other things. They always have been a little stubborn this way....
06-17-2009, 12:57 PM   #4
Pentaxian
Marc Sabatella's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 10,686
If you're going to do PP anyhow, what could possibly be the advantage of doing the curves in the camera?

06-17-2009, 02:06 PM   #5
Veteran Member
jeffkrol's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wisconsin USA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,434
QuoteOriginally posted by Marc Sabatella Quote
If you're going to do PP anyhow, what could possibly be the advantage of doing the curves in the camera?
Technically not necessary for RAW:
Interesting article (and an intersting dig at Nikon "underexposure". Would be interesting to some that b@%ch of Pentax underexposure )
Still want WB coefficients....
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2008/03/16/nikon-custom-curves/
Actually after reading the article a bit more Pentax could use this since I believe their "default" neutral is usually quite flat and custom curve to suit a style or subject (instead of puttering around w/ brightness/contrast ect in camera) would be helpful.. still.. this is pro territory...

Last edited by jeffkrol; 06-17-2009 at 02:30 PM.
06-17-2009, 06:15 PM   #6
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 171
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Technically not necessary for RAW:
Interesting article (and an intersting dig at Nikon "underexposure". Would be interesting to some that b@%ch of Pentax underexposure )
Still want WB coefficients....
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2008/03/16/nikon-custom-curves/
Actually after reading the article a bit more Pentax could use this since I believe their "default" neutral is usually quite flat and custom curve to suit a style or subject (instead of puttering around w/ brightness/contrast ect in camera) would be helpful.. still.. this is pro territory...
I don't know whether it's really a pro feature. I heard from my bro that his D80 can load curve too (but the no of curve is limited to one).
I heard that D300 can load up to 12 curves.
I think the advantages to loading curves compare to post processing really depends on the users. For me, I prefer the images showing in the camera come close to the final output. Just like the wb, you can change it in computer, but I prefer I already control it inside the camera.
06-18-2009, 04:59 AM   #7
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 308
Phase One's Capture One 4 does excellent work. After I load my DNG files I can pick a camera profile from a huge list instead of just using the generic Pentax K20D profile. Nikon D3 and Sony A900 generic ones give very nice results while the Pentax one is quite saturated one (very very close to the bright JPG output) and has a bit more contrast. Capture One gives very high IQ with rich tones. You can download a trial from their homepage which works for 30 days with full functionality. The workflow is a bit more complicated than with Lightroom but the IQ just delivers.

Of course this is not in-camera solution but still gives you an option in the form of PP to get the looks of different camera.
06-18-2009, 08:18 AM   #8
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 171
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Maffer Quote
Phase One's Capture One 4 does excellent work. After I load my DNG files I can pick a camera profile from a huge list instead of just using the generic Pentax K20D profile. Nikon D3 and Sony A900 generic ones give very nice results while the Pentax one is quite saturated one (very very close to the bright JPG output) and has a bit more contrast. Capture One gives very high IQ with rich tones. You can download a trial from their homepage which works for 30 days with full functionality. The workflow is a bit more complicated than with Lightroom but the IQ just delivers.

Of course this is not in-camera solution but still gives you an option in the form of PP to get the looks of different camera.
Just dl the trail version to play, should I choose "Pentax K20D Generic" in the "Basic Characteristic" section?
A little bit complex but very flexible

06-18-2009, 02:43 PM   #9
Inactive Account




Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Finland
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 308
The K20D generic profile seems to mimic the in-camera default jpg-setting. You can also use the profiles of other cameras if you like 'em more. Doesn't hurt to try. Also experiment with the Film-curves under the camera profile selection. If you like to play with the manual tone curve settings you can find 'em under the Exposure-tab.
06-18-2009, 05:11 PM   #10
Pentaxian
Duplo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 916
QuoteOriginally posted by jeffkrol Quote
Technically not necessary for RAW:
Interesting article (and an intersting dig at Nikon "underexposure". Would be interesting to some that b@%ch of Pentax underexposure )
Still want WB coefficients....
http://www.planetneil.com/tangents/2008/03/16/nikon-custom-curves/
Actually after reading the article a bit more Pentax could use this since I believe their "default" neutral is usually quite flat and custom curve to suit a style or subject (instead of puttering around w/ brightness/contrast ect in camera) would be helpful.. still.. this is pro territory...
Well it is very necessary for RAW, but again it depends on how we treat RAW.

Technically it goes like this;
An optimal RAW capture will have all 3 colourchannels exposed to just before RAW clipping, that is the technically maximal output from the sensor.

The in camera histogram has two flaws in terms of judging the histograms.
Whitebalance and tonecurve.

Now when white balance is applied the red or blue channel can be pushed as much as 2 stops depending on the applied value, the tonecurves from the in camera presets are not linear in neither the K10D, KM or DS which distorts the histograms further.

So first thing first is to find a white balance koefficient that equals the sensors native WB and use that as a preset, this is commenly called uniWB.

Second step is to install a linear tonecurve, easy on nikon, impossible on pentax.

Now lets play that we have these things achieved anyway, you will now see what the sensor actually gives you.
However often you will see either the red, blue or both channels underexposed compared to the Green channel.
This is where coloured filters comes into play, a blue, red and magentafilter and you are all set. to make the most of your RAW capture.

In short to be able to load curves can be very useful when shooting RAW if you are willing to go all the way and to treat RAW as a file optimised for post processing

Maybe not for the average shooter, but this approach has worked wonders for the technical quality of my landscape and high ISO shots.
06-20-2009, 07:09 PM   #11
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 171
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Maffer Quote
The K20D generic profile seems to mimic the in-camera default jpg-setting. You can also use the profiles of other cameras if you like 'em more. Doesn't hurt to try. Also experiment with the Film-curves under the camera profile selection. If you like to play with the manual tone curve settings you can find 'em under the Exposure-tab.
i take some pics yesterday. when i load to capture one.
the pic seems very similar to jpg (i use instant jpeg from raw to extract these jpeg).
however, when I select the K20 generic profile. the color seems quite a lot saturated. do u have similar experience?
06-24-2009, 04:49 PM   #12
Veteran Member
kristoffon's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 532
QuoteOriginally posted by Duplo Quote
Well it is very necessary for RAW, but again it depends on how we treat RAW.

Technically it goes like this;
An optimal RAW capture will have all 3 colourchannels exposed to just before RAW clipping, that is the technically maximal output from the sensor.
No it's not. For starters if you shoot anything other than ISO 100 the channels won't be near clipping.

[sensor] -> [raw data] -> [jpg]

You only choose if you'd rather the camera handle the second step or you do it in the PC.
06-24-2009, 04:57 PM   #13
Veteran Member
kristoffon's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Brazil
Posts: 532
Also I was just looking at the gallery the OP posted.

Those are more "photoshops" than "photographs" IMO by which I mean that effect is more easily achieved through the former. Cameras aren't supposed to take images like that. And I seriously doubt the photographer is posting them straight from the camera without serious work in PS.
06-25-2009, 05:22 AM   #14
Senior Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: HK
Posts: 171
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
Also I was just looking at the gallery the OP posted.

Those are more "photoshops" than "photographs" IMO by which I mean that effect is more easily achieved through the former. Cameras aren't supposed to take images like that. And I seriously doubt the photographer is posting them straight from the camera without serious work in PS.
actually, IMO, the photos (directly from dslr) are quite close to the final one. (just change the curve a little bit)
eg.
http://us.f6.yahoofs.com/hkblog/pKVvAg2EERO8aMBPIpXstHQ-_1/blog/200811040942..._____D0znHhu56

fotologue : gallery : KAGA0401
06-29-2009, 06:35 AM   #15
Pentaxian
Duplo's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Copenhagen
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 916
QuoteOriginally posted by kristoffon Quote
No it's not. For starters if you shoot anything other than ISO 100 the channels won't be near clipping.

[sensor] -> [raw data] -> [jpg]

You only choose if you'd rather the camera handle the second step or you do it in the PC.
With all due respect, I think you missed my point.

If we treat RAW as a life saver you are right, but if we treat as a starting point for the optimal technical result then you are not.

Please do read my entire post again.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, curves, dslr, image, k20d, load, parameters, photography, pics, review
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
what if nikon and canon didnt make dslrs Adrian Owerko Pentax News and Rumors 17 07-26-2010 02:36 AM
[suggestion] New function for next Pentax APS-C DSLR Nass Pentax DSLR Discussion 3 02-08-2010 07:46 AM
K20D : Custom Function 10 Wildfire_ja Pentax DSLR Discussion 6 07-31-2009 10:24 AM
K20D function want2beyounger Pentax DSLR Discussion 4 10-24-2008 10:57 AM
How to make good photos with NIKON LOL!! Andres Post Your Photos! 0 09-24-2008 06:17 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:38 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top