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06-22-2009, 11:55 AM   #1
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Pentax 645D

I know what I am expecting from this camera, but what are you and what price should it come in at to remain competitive?

If Pentax want to compete in this playing field, it is important that there is a very strong reason for those already committed to an MF system to switch. If they get their price point well placed, perhaps they will have some converts from MF and FF 35 mm format DSLR's.

Ben


Last edited by benjikan; 06-22-2009 at 04:07 PM.
06-22-2009, 12:18 PM   #2
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2 people are currently watching pentax medium format

I like the layout of this site. I like it alot. I come into pentaxforums.com via the forums page. I can't recall ever seeing more than 4 people viewing 645, 6x7 site. Right now two people are viewing pentax medium format area.

So what is this magical price point to cause pros to either flee their current systems or add a pentax 645D inleiu of simply adding more same brand gear they already use to their bag?


Pentax Medium Format: 645, 6x7, 645D - PentaxForums.com


And the page that shows the number of people watching/viewing each section:


https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/

Last edited by Samsungian; 06-22-2009 at 12:26 PM. Reason: added 2nd link
06-22-2009, 12:25 PM   #3
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Not sure how many are shooting MF around here. I don't, but I have played with larger format camera's during my photography training (which I just completed btw). I certainly learned to appreciate what can be done using an MF system. It's probably a dream, but if ever a MF camera (like the 645D) would become affordable to me (either because I got an opportunity to go pro and thus it would be an income generating investment, or because I won the lottery, the latter more likely ) I wouldn't hesitate.

The one thing I personally don't really like about the 645D system is the 4:3 aspect ratio. But with that much sensor real estate I guess cropping is even less of an issue than with APS-C.

Price would be the most important aspect of course, but so is availability of lenses, esp wide angle I would say. The road map includes one wide angle for the 645D, but that may be a bit limited...

Wim
06-22-2009, 12:31 PM   #4
and
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I dont think a lot of people here will get a 645D, Pentax is a more affordable brand than its competitors and I find many people got into Pentax because of that. Some people like to say that the 645D will be Pentax' FF, but about the only thing you could use from your Pentax system would be the flash, all new body and lenses, and at a price of probably around 10000 dollars at least then it would be cheaper to add a Nikon D3 system instead. But then I guess the hobbyists who have that amount of money are not likely to use Pentax.

The market for the 645D will be the pros who have Pentax 645 film cameras, they seem to have dominated in japan for film but they are so slow with digital I wonder how many are left now.

06-22-2009, 12:52 PM   #5
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I shot a 645 and 645afii for a long time. I have a big fear that Pentax will have no niche for the 645d. True MF digital has moved into what 60mp's? (albeit for $40k) I know that if the 645D comes in at 30mp, around 10k, and cant beat the D3x over at DXO mark, they are going to have a real hard time selling many. Why would I lug arround the 645D when a D3x does a better job.
06-22-2009, 01:13 PM   #6
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Yes, but my feeling is that they are going to try to get D3x performance for less than the D3X. When you consider the price point of 7500 dollars for the D3X, I think that it is possible. Size is certainly not going to be that different -- the D3X is no EP-1 by any means.
06-22-2009, 02:20 PM   #7
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D3x is up to $7299 from $7099 in January 2009

Ah, I had to look for the $7500 D3x. Been a while since I put it in a cart to get sale price. It was $7099 at same place in January back when Nikon said they would not increase dslr prices, just their lenses ;^) Yeah, right...


They did increase price & its a nickel less than $7300:


Nikon D3x SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) more info

MFR #25442 • B&H #NID3X Free Shipping

Our Price:
$7,299.95
Sub Total:
$7,299.95


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/592951-REG/Nikon_25442_D3x_SLR_Digital_Camera.html


Will 645D undercut D3x price in todays dollars. But where will D3x be priced at when ever 645D is actually receivable when ordered?

Canon flagship has been as low as $6499 at same store. Its UP some $500 now since January also: $6,999.95

Canon | EOS-1Ds Mark III SLR Digital Camera | 2011B002 | B&H


Really to create a stir and undercut the Canon and Nikon flagships shouldn't 645D be $6,000 launch and not a Cent more? Well thats if it were available & deliverable today in Global Market Place as Nikon and Canon both are. 645D is simply a Roadmap item thats been on, then off, then really off & now on again. No Official printed price, No Official specs, just its name: 645D and some prototype images that people post occasionally.
06-22-2009, 03:41 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by benjikan Quote
I know what I am expecting from this camera, but what are you and what price should it come in at to remain competitive?

If Pentax want to compete in this playing field, it is important that there is a very stron reason for those already committed to an MF system to switch. If they get their price point well placed, perhaps they will have some converts from MF and FF 35 mm format DSLR's.

Ben
$10,000 was the "going rate"..........

06-22-2009, 03:57 PM   #9
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I also shoot large format film,alongside MF I always use B&W film velvia 50 just does not cut it for sharpness in my books. I"ll definatley be looking forward to the 645D
06-22-2009, 05:21 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
I also shoot large format film,alongside MF I always use B&W film velvia 50 just does not cut it for sharpness in my books. I"ll definatley be looking forward to the 645D
You expect the 645d to be sharper than 645 velvia... wow.. I use 50 asa velvia as my benchmark and havent had anything yet digital that I find as good.. i must be doing something wrong
06-23-2009, 05:50 PM   #11
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All the signs lead to the fact that 645D will probably give a serious run for its money to the Leica S2 at least in the body department. They will most likely use the same Kodak sensor (I very much doubt that Leica can afford an exclusive on that) and this means 1.5 aspect ratio (45x30 mm), 37.5 Mp and about twice the speed of current MF cameras (which is about 0.8-1.5 fps now). Leica claimed 1,5 fps or more for the S2 and the rumor is that the ISO range will be 100 to 1600 or 3200. So my guess is:

45x30 mm, 37.5 Mp sensor (Kodak);
One or two Prime 2 image processors. Although in K-7 a Prime 2 pushes 75Mp/s (enough for 2 fps) this is for pefs @12bit. Probably for the 16bit files they will need more power. Also it will be nice to have both pefs and compressed dngs for the huge files this camera will spit
2 - 2.5 fps for a buffer of at least 15 pictures in RAW
100-3200 ISO probably very clean up to ISO 800 including, ISO 1600 usable but the innovation could be the 1/3 stop ISO stepping (I don't know if other MF cameras allow for ISO 320, ISO 640 and so on)
Under 1100 grams with battery and 2 SD cards for the body only;
Mg case, weather seals, 3" Hi res LCD
Dual SD slots hopefully for SDXC cards
D-Li90 like the K-7
Probably the same AWB, exposure and AF systems of the K-7
Under 1M Yen with the D-FA 55/2.8 (I hope so)

Regards,
Radu
06-23-2009, 06:44 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by mrt10x Quote
You expect the 645d to be sharper than 645 velvia... wow.. I use 50 asa velvia as my benchmark and havent had anything yet digital that I find as good.. i must be doing something wrong
I haven't tried the new velvia 50, I still have a few 120 rolls and 4X5 sheets of the older (original) emulsion stored in dry ice. Even though I'm bleach bypassing the film to tame the saturation, grain gets in the way of resolution on 645 format. on 4X5 it's a different matter.
06-24-2009, 01:42 AM   #13
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If the 645D is priced at D3X level and delivers better IQ, then it will sell. But that's a big "if". The MF back priced closest to the Nikon fails miserably against it. If Pentax doesn't offer better IQ, people just aren't going to bother with it.

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06-24-2009, 06:58 AM   #14
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The thing is, regardless of what the charts at DXO say, the ZD back still stomps the D3X at doing the things that people use MF to do. The D3X is far more versatile, rugged, dependable, has higher IQ in many ways, etc. but it's still 35mm format.
06-24-2009, 07:49 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by er1kksen Quote
the ZD back still stomps the D3X at doing the things that people use MF to do.
Such as?

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