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12-08-2009, 03:45 AM   #241
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Picture done with my Pentax K-x white and Tamron SP 200mm f/3.5 adapatll-2 (04B). I do some minor cleaning on noise in iPhoto with small noise reduction to clean out the noise on performer's face.



1/100 sec, f/3.5, 200mm, iso 6400, 0 Ev, no flash
minor tuning on NR in iPhoto



The K-x makes an ordinary lens work like a king of MF lens on steroid. Had I known how to PP this shot a bit better, you will think it is a shot done in iso 1600 in K20D. I may be bluffing which I am as I am frightened to see more of my own shots that come out unexpectedly good and better than yesterday.

Thanks,
Hin


Last edited by hinman; 02-04-2010 at 11:39 AM.
12-08-2009, 06:12 AM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Marc, sorry but I don't understand ... as usual: "pushing" 2/3 stop: do you mean increasing exposure by 2/3 Ev while still at ISO 1600?
Would this really help with noise?
Confused.
JP
I think what Marc is saying is that he deliberately underexposes a photo, so that he keeps a fast enough shutter speed, but doesn't push his iso too high. Then in post processing he pulls it up.

This doesn't help noise, but your results can be significantly better. I would far rather shoot at iso 3200 and bring up my photos in post, than to use iso 6400 on the K20. Noise is only one issue. Dynamic range just gets completely lost at really high isos.
12-08-2009, 06:29 AM   #243
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I think what Marc is saying is that he deliberately underexposes a photo, so that he keeps a fast enough shutter speed, but doesn't push his iso too high. Then in post processing he pulls it up.

This doesn't help noise, but your results can be significantly better. I would far rather shoot at iso 3200 and bring up my photos in post, than to use iso 6400 on the K20. Noise is only one issue. Dynamic range just gets completely lost at really high isos.

i used to do this with my sony r1, because its high iso performance was not good plus lense was also not so fast. So i would under expose, and then in post processing develop it. Since camera had very detailed files, controlled noise reduction from good software could give very good output.
12-08-2009, 09:04 AM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Had I known how to PP this shot a bit better, you will think it is a shot done in iso 1600 in K20D. I may be bluffing which I am as I am frightened to see more of my own shots that come out unexpectedly good and better than yesterday.

Thanks,
Hin
Sorry Hin, but neither of these shots look very good to me. They're soft and have a dirty looking grain. Certainly not comparable to anything I've seen from a K20D at ISO 1600.

12-08-2009, 12:15 PM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Sorry Hin, but neither of these shots look very good to me. They're soft and have a dirty looking grain. Certainly not comparable to anything I've seen from a K20D at ISO 1600.
I have to disagree; at the last low-light event I shot with the K20D, I tried to keep it around ISO 1250. Many of the images, especially if they needed even the slightest bit of exposure increase, showed a similar muddiness and noise to what I see in that 6400 shot. The softness may be a result of either NR, dof, or motion blur, so that's not really a good point of comparison.
12-08-2009, 12:21 PM   #246
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Pentax K20D ISO 1600












12-08-2009, 01:42 PM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by jpzk Quote
Marc, sorry but I don't understand ... as usual: "pushing" 2/3 stop: do you mean increasing exposure by 2/3 Ev while still at ISO 1600?
Would this really help with noise?
I mean I shot it at ISO 1600 but underexposed 2/3 of a stop and then brightened in PP. No, this does not help with noise - it helps with shutter speed. A correctly exposed picture at ISO 1600 would have had too slow a shutter speed for my purposes. So I simply turn up the shutter speed anyhow and fix the resuting underexposing in PP. The result is exactly - and I mean *exactly* like turning the ISO up to 2400 (or whatever it works out to) in the first place. Except my camera doesn't go any higher than 1600. So I emulate it by shooting underexposed at ISO 1600. That's actually what many cameras that *do* have higher ISO's do, also - they emulate their ISO 3200 by shooting underexposed and ISO 1600 and then simply brightening the pictures in the firmware processing. But the bottom line is that you get the same shutter speed and the same exposure and the same noise levels either way - whether doing the "push processing" yourself or letting the camera do it.
12-08-2009, 02:17 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by hinman Quote
Picture done with my Pentax K-x white and Tamron SP 200mm f/3.5 adapatll-2 (04B). I do some minor cleaning on noise in iPhoto with small noise reduction to clean out the noise on performer's face.

[center]

1/100 sec, f/3.5, 200mm, iso 3200, 0 Ev, no flash, no PP
NR default in Medium


1/100 sec, f/3.5, 200mm, iso 6400, 0 Ev, no flash
minor tuning on NR in iPhoto



The K-x makes an ordinary lens work like a king of MF lens on steroid. Had I known how to PP this shot a bit better, you will think it is a shot done in iso 1600 in K20D. I may be bluffing which I am as I am frightened to see more of my own shots that come out unexpectedly good and better than yesterday.

Thanks,
Hin
Hin Man,
It would be interesting to see those same pics without NR at all.
JP

12-08-2009, 03:51 PM   #249
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Quick test shot @ ISO 3200 on my K7. Don't usually use an ISO this high but this seems to look acceptable.
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12-08-2009, 04:52 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by jgredline Quote
Pentax K20D ISO 1600


Love your Hollywood Blvd shots, especially the first two...Cat Woman against the K-9 vehicle is fun!

When I was a kid we lived on the corner of N. Hayworth and Norton. That's just a block away from Santa Monica & Fairfax. Anyway, I used to take comic books I found at swap meets and other sales up to the three comic book shops on Hollywood Blvd. The only store I remember was Cherokee Comics but there were two others and I gave each of them a shot at the comics I found, and I found some amazingly rare comics for some reason. My buddies and I would hope on the good old RTD with our student passes and spend the afternoon taking in the "sights". So your shots bring back some fun memories...thanks!! Of course that was in the early 70s so things are just a tad different, yet still the same which is nice.
12-08-2009, 06:36 PM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by audiobomber Quote
Sorry Hin, but neither of these shots look very good to me. They're soft and have a dirty looking grain. Certainly not comparable to anything I've seen from a K20D at ISO 1600.
By the way, the sample high ISO shots are done with K-x and a $80 MF lens that are skeptical to user MF error but I think given that I am at least 15 feet away from the subject and the dark background, the K-x does quite good for me. And also, the lens is used wide open in f/3.5 for stressing the prime.

I like to hear different opinions and perhaps more from other users with K20D or K-7 in assessing the shot. I myself have the K20D and it is a charmer and ISO is dependable at 1600 and it is usable in 3200 but nothing pass 3200 boundary. I may be bluffing when I say a iso 6400 shot from K-x with good Noise Reduction will look as good as an iso 1600 as in K20D. It is fairer if I say it as in improvement by 1 full stop in noise handling where I find iso 6400 in K-x is about as clean if not better than my personal experience with iso 3200 with K20D.

My rough impressions are here between K20D and K-x. By rough impressions, I mean there are variations and dependency on ambient light and the quality of lens used, and perfection steps in PP.
  • With K20D, I have clean shot up to 1600 and I find iso 3200 usable but nothing to be proud of in 3200. Forget anything beyond 3200.
  • With K-x, I have clean shots on 3200 similar to iso 1600 in K20D. I can trust it with not much issue on noise in 3200. And I find surprisingly very workable shots in iso 6400. Details is lost a bit but no color botches noted and it seems with a good noise clean up, the iso 6400 is more than usable, it is actually good to be printed in large printing
  • Please don't flame me in the saying as it is my personal opinions subject to revision and confirmation with more use.
  • I am NOT a pixel peeper and a lot of lousy shots to others are actually good shots in my eyes. I am NOT picky


1/200 sec, f/3.2, 65mm, iso 1600, 0 Ev, K20D
Pentax DA* 50-135mm f/2.8 in Bharatanayam



Picture in comparing FA 77mm f/1.8 and DA* 50-135mm f/2.8


Thanks,
Hin

Last edited by hinman; 12-08-2009 at 07:38 PM.
12-08-2009, 06:45 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by mike3legs Quote
Quick test shot @ ISO 3200 on my K7. Don't usually use an ISO this high but this seems to look acceptable.
Great shot Mike!
I too have a few K7 pics at different ISO's in my "Test Album" ... go visit.
To be fair, I think this K7 noise issue has been overstated.

JP
12-08-2009, 06:48 PM   #253
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Well said Hin.
12-09-2009, 01:17 AM   #254
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JP. I'd checked yours out. well worth a look.

I must admit out in the field I often shoot say ISO 1250 and underexpose by a stop or more and bring it back in PP.

I think the other thing this shot shows is how good the SR is.

From my exif data: shutter speed was 1/13th of Sec.
focal length 153mm!!
12-12-2009, 11:47 PM   #255
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