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04-30-2007, 06:06 PM   #16
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I have the same issue. I have been using a 4gb sdhc sandisk Ultra II card and assumed the problem was because of the new hc configuration. I also use Lightroom. For small uploads I use the USB card reader that came with the card. For larger uploads I use my Wolverine (with updated firmware) as a card reader, i.e.; I do not first load to the Wolverine. The Wolverine has fewer rejects and is faster than the USB card reader. I then go back once or twice and tell Lightroom to copy and upload the rejected files. In the end I get them all, but quite annoying.

I shoot DNG. Maybe the problem is Lightroom. Does anyone have this problem who is not using Lightroom?

04-30-2007, 06:22 PM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by jfdavis58 Quote
Somewhere I was told that USB was a shared interface: several devices all using the same physical pathway. Sometimes things don't behave well together...
Not likely the problem here. Conflicts occur mainly when (a) drivers are incompatible and to a lesser extent (b) when there are I/O conflicts as multiple devices try to get data from or give data to the operating system at the same time. That doesn't happen when I'm importing photos. I do not import photos while I'm say, doing a large download in my web browser in the background (with photos going to one external drive, download to another). Actually, my dual-core laptop ought to be able to pat its head and rub its tummy at the same time while whistling "Dixie", but still, I seldom ask it to do so. Once the images are imported into Lightroom, I never again have a problem with them. The problem seems to originate on the SD card in the first place.

I've reformatted the SanDisk card now. I'm going to stick with it exclusively for a few days, take lots of pictures, and see if that ends the problem. If it doesn't, well, I'll have to go looking for something else.

Will
04-30-2007, 06:32 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by GarySloman Quote
I shoot DNG. Maybe the problem is Lightroom. Does anyone have this problem who is not using Lightroom?

THanks, Gary, for weighing in here. It looks as if everybody who has had this problem was using Lightroom. To be honest, the thought that it is Lightroom's fault makes little sense to me as a programmer. Usually, I expect bugs to exhibit themselves consistently. If Lightroom can't read PEF files, I expect it to have problems every time. MIGHT be a memory management problem. Problem does seem to occur only when I'm importing lots of image files at once. And I convert them from PEF to DNG during import. But I would not expect a memory management problem to cause it to fail to import one or two images - I'd expect it to cause the import process to stop, or the program to crash, or something really bad like that. Instead, Lightroom actually handles the problem fairly gracefully, reporting at the end of the process that the following file(s) could not be imported, sometimes offering a reason for the failure, and listing the names of the files. Not prima facie buggy behavior. At the moment, I'm more inclined to suspect the card itself, the way I've formatted it, or the card reader.

But it seems I have a lot of theories to test.

1. Have reformatted SanDisk card and will use it exclusively for a few days. If problems go away entirely and never return, I'll conclude it was the formatting of the card. May consider henceforth using Format option to clear the card rather than using the "delete all" command in the camera.

2. Try a different card reader.

3. If I still have problems after 1 and 2, I'll switch to the Transcend card exclusively for a week, after reformatting it. If I have no problems, I'll suspect that it was the SanDisk card.

4. If both SanDisk and Transcend cards have problems, even after reformatting, I'll consider the possibility that the problem lies with Lightroom. Might change my import options NOT to convert to DNG at the time of import.

If I haven't solved the problem by step 4 in the testing process, I'll throw the K10D and the Dell laptop away and go back to my Nikon film camera. ;-)

Will
04-30-2007, 06:47 PM   #19
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When using RSE I would get a similar problem. Some shots would download and some wouldn't. Even with card reader. Found out that shots using in camera noise reduction (long time exposures- 2 shots, one black) couldn't be used. Not saying this is your problem but it does demonstrate how a small little change throws everything off. Didn't Adobe use RSE as a basis for Lightroom? I'll stick with my Silkypix. Never had a problem with any DS or K10D files. Hope you figure it out. No program is worth going back to a film loaded Nikon.
thanks
barondla

04-30-2007, 07:07 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
When using RSE I would get a similar problem. Some shots would download and some wouldn't. Even with card reader. Found out that shots using in camera noise reduction (long time exposures- 2 shots, one black) couldn't be used. Not saying this is your problem but it does demonstrate how a small little change throws everything off.
Interesting. For what it's worth, I have noise reduction enabled in the camera's menu options. Don't know whether it affects the photos when I'm shooting Raw or not. And the five photos that failed to import today were no differently exposed from the 50 other photos I took at the same time in the same lighting conditions. I understand the principle you are trying to illustrate, however.

QuoteQuote:
Didn't Adobe use RSE as a basis for Lightroom? I'll stick with my Silkypix. Never had a problem with any DS or K10D files. Hope you figure it out. No program is worth going back to a film loaded Nikon.
Adobe bought Raw Shooter Essentials lock, stock and barrel full o' programmers. But I do not know exactly what contributions RSE's folks made. That occurred during the year+ long public beta, but a little before I started testing Lightroom myself.

My Nikon N65 isn't a bad little camera. Weighs half what the K10D weighs and has been known to take a nice photo. But I haven't used it in a very long time. Been meaning to take it off the shelf and do some test shots comparing its results to those I get from the K10D, just for fun.

Will
04-30-2007, 07:10 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
Not likely the problem here. Conflicts occur mainly when (a) drivers are incompatible and to a lesser extent (b) when there are I/O conflicts as multiple devices try to get data from or give data to the operating system at the same time. That doesn't happen when I'm importing photos. I do not import photos while I'm say, doing a large download in my web browser in the background (with photos going to one external drive, download to another). Actually, my dual-core laptop ought to be able to pat its head and rub its tummy at the same time while whistling "Dixie", but still, I seldom ask it to do so. Once the images are imported into Lightroom, I never again have a problem with them. The problem seems to originate on the SD card in the first place.

I've reformatted the SanDisk card now. I'm going to stick with it exclusively for a few days, take lots of pictures, and see if that ends the problem. If it doesn't, well, I'll have to go looking for something else.

Will
OK. Well my laptop is a bit older so you got the best I could give.

Just talking to Beth; she had a one file glitch a couple weeks ago. Mentioned it on the forum. Nothing suggested worked. She continued to pursue an answer and at some point used a file recovery utility-she got the file back; she's happy.
04-30-2007, 08:05 PM   #22
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I don't use Lightroom, so add one hash mark to the hypothesis disproved column.

Yes, I did get my file back, but I can't remember which program I used. I know I downloaded two or three of the programs mentioned in AmandaJL's thread about accidentally formatting her card.

BTW, Will, IrfanViewer is free and a nifty piece of software. All it gave me was the JPG thumbnail embedded in the RAW file, but your mileage might vary.
04-30-2007, 10:12 PM   #23
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I use Lightroom but I do not let it download images off the SD card. My workflow is to copy the files off fhe SD card onto my Wolverine flashpac 7000 - then copy those files/folders onto my hard drive. So if I still have my SD card around - I have three copies - SD, Wolverine and a Folder on my data drive. I (crossing my fingers here) have not had any issue with the cards yet.

With reference to some of the earlier posts - I always format the cards in the camera - the camera's method of formating does an integrity check and should signal you if the SD card is having "issues". As for the FAT system being mature - that is true - but it is fragile none the less - and deleting files rather than camera formating can lead to issues down the road. Here is a site that speaks to the care and feeding of flash memory cards - the Author has been working with digital for 13 years now as director of the Digital Lab at Santa Fe Workshops (Used by National Geographic for their Assignment series Expeditions) If you get the chance take one of these - great times, smart people, beautiful country side and you eat, sleep and think photography for a 6 days straight. Oh -- Aug 2004

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04-30-2007, 10:23 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by PDL Quote
I use Lightroom but I do not let it download images off the SD card.
I had a problem tonight importing an image from the SanDisk card that I formatted early today. One of about 50 pictures that I took this evening was reported by Lightroom as not importing properly. I did an experiment. Normally, I use a preset behavior when importing: Lightroom copies the files from the SD card to my external hard disk AND also converts them from PEF to DNG. I decided to cut out the conversion and simply copy the files. Except that I imported only the one file that was reported as unreadable. It worked - the image was copied and I was able to edit it. Not sure that this really proves anything, yet. Just something to note.

Oh, it is also noteworthy that the card once again had a problem file, even though I formatted it in the camera earlier today.

QuoteQuote:
....Here is a site that speaks to the care and feeding of flash memory cards...
Thanks for this useful link, PDL. There was only one tip in there that was, well, not new to me, but a reminder to do something that I don't always do. I do not always use the "safely remove hardware" utility in the system tray before ejecting my SD card from the card reader; sometimes I simply quit Lightroom and manually pull the card out. It IS technically legal to do this, I believe. But it probably is a good idea to use the eject command or the safely-remove hardware utility first.

Will
05-01-2007, 02:35 AM   #25
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Will,
Are you using a USB hub and plugging both the external drive, and the Card reader into the hub? If, so try plugging one of them into a different USB bus.

I've not had your problem at all with a variety of cards, including the Transcend. I've been using ACR 4.0 with CS3 Beta. Could be your
Lightroom installation. If all else fails, as a last resort, try uninstalling completely and reinstalling the app.
05-01-2007, 06:13 AM   #26
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The problem is not lightroom
The problem is not the cards
The problem is not the readers

I think it's the problem within the camera.

I have the same problem , and have had the problem with a Transcend 4gb card, Hoodman RAW 2gb card, and 2 other brands.

I don't use lightroom, I use that Pentax photobrowser to extract, and have tried using Elements 5, and both have the same issues.

CAMERA PROBLEM.
05-01-2007, 06:17 AM   #27
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Quite possibly. But it does make sense to exhaust all other options before having to send the camera in.
05-01-2007, 06:43 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxperson Quote
The problem is not lightroom
The problem is not the cards
The problem is not the readers

I think it's the problem within the camera.

I have the same problem , and have had the problem with a Transcend 4gb card, Hoodman RAW 2gb card, and 2 other brands.

I don't use lightroom, I use that Pentax photobrowser to extract, and have tried using Elements 5, and both have the same issues.

CAMERA PROBLEM.
You forgot to mention it's not a USB problem
Could be the camera, but it appears isolated. Only a few reports so far.
Sorry, I don't completely trust USB and from a historical perspective (from microsoft
driver screw ups to VIA faulty chipsets, and underpowered USB busses on MB's), it has had problems though most have been worked out.
I stil don't rule it out completely, ever.
still doesn't look like a classic USB failure... could be you RAM as well.
Easiest test, take a card (or your camera and cable)to someone who has never had transfer problems, and try it there.......Your multiple cards rule out an individual card failure.
05-01-2007, 09:39 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
Will,
Are you using a USB hub and plugging both the external drive, and the Card reader into the hub? If, so try plugging one of them into a different USB bus.
No, no hub here.

Will
05-01-2007, 09:47 AM   #30
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simple things first

QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote

*snip*

But it seems I have a lot of theories to test.

1. Have reformatted SanDisk card and will use it exclusively for a few days. If problems go away entirely and never return, I'll conclude it was the formatting of the card. May consider henceforth using Format option to clear the card rather than using the "delete all" command in the camera.

2. Try a different card reader.

3. If I still have problems after 1 and 2, I'll switch to the Transcend card exclusively for a week, after reformatting it. If I have no problems, I'll suspect that it was the SanDisk card.

4. If both SanDisk and Transcend cards have problems, even after reformatting, I'll consider the possibility that the problem lies with Lightroom. Might change my import options NOT to convert to DNG at the time of import.

If I haven't solved the problem by step 4 in the testing process, I'll throw the K10D and the Dell laptop away and go back to my Nikon film camera. ;-)

Will
Hi Will, have you tried #2 yet? I had a very similar problem with my DS and PSE 3 a while back. Some files simply wouldn't import. Only happened with a large download of files, and it was seemingly random, 20 files would download than a reject than 39 would download then 4 rejects in a row, etc. Affected all of my cards and in different spots on the card, and different spots on the same card. The problem turned out to be the reader. I spent many an afternoon/evening scratching my head trying one thing after another. I finally broke down and got a new $15 reader, and have not had a problem since. When I read your first post, my initial thought was "reader" nothing I've read since convinces me otherwise. I also have an old rig and like John I have to make sure other stuff is not plugged into the same USB hub at the same time, but that is a simple work around, and not really relevant here as it sound like you have a new gofast laptop. If you still have your K10D download cable, you might want to try downloading directly from the camera, if you don't lose any files, chances are it's the reader.

NaCl(one thing I've learned over and over, try the simple stuff first)H2O
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