Ugh, another frustration with sync speed

GoldenWreckedAngle · 07-01-2009, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by xixco

sorry to threadjack, but i stumbled on this earlier and excitedly just drove to the nearby park on my lunch hour to try it ...and it didn't work. My K10D kicked back to 180th/second every time i hit the shutter. my 540flash was mounted directly onto the camera. Was that the problem? Or did I miss something??

Hit the function button, drop down into the flash settings and choose the high speed sync option.

kittykat46 · 07-01-2009, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

It was shot at 1/320 with flash. Teach me how to do that with my Pentax and I'll kiss ya!

I put the flash on High-Speed Synch, shutter at 1/400s and aimed at the fastest moving object in the room - a rotating ceiling fan at normal operating speed.

Getting late, I'll have to post the photos tommorow.

Here's what I can see :-
Does HSS produce multiple images of fast moving objects ?
Strictly as a matter of electronics, the answer is "Yes" because that's how HSS functions.
As a matter of practical photography ? The fast moving fan blades come out showing motion blur - not surprising at 1/400s. I can't see multiple sharp images, which would have been ugly. You can print it on A4-size, view it on full screen, still OK.

I've used at various times
a. High shutter speed with High-Speed Synch to deliberately darken the ambient background. It works fine with common photography situations (except high speed objects, where you get motion blur).
b. Rear-curtain synch to get the "blurred motion" effect ending with a final sharp flash image.
The limits to the Pentax flash are known, and have rarely bothered me as a "problem".

I believe you are looking for high-shutter speed together with a single flash strobe (just like normal X-synch).
I respect your requirements, I think the conclusion is the Pentax camera/flash won't do it.

xixco · 07-01-2009, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

Hit the function button, drop down into the flash settings and choose the high speed sync option.

*smacks head*
so simple, yet so elusive

Thanks!!

GoldenWreckedAngle · 07-01-2009, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by kittykat46

I put the flash on High-Speed Synch, shutter at 1/400s and aimed at the fastest moving object in the room - a rotating ceiling fan at normal operating speed.

Getting late, I'll have to post the photos tommorow.

Here's what I can see :-
Does HSS produce multiple images of fast moving objects ?
Strictly as a matter of electronics, the answer is "Yes" because that's how HSS functions.
As a matter of practical photography ? The fast moving fan blades come out showing motion blur - not surprising at 1/400s. I can't see multiple sharp images, which would have been ugly. You can print it on A4-size, view it on full screen, still OK.

I've used at various times
a. High shutter speed with High-Speed Synch to deliberately darken the ambient background. It works fine with common photography situations (except high speed objects, where you get motion blur).
b. Rear-curtain synch to get the "blurred motion" effect ending with a final sharp flash image.
The limits to the Pentax flash are known, and have rarely bothered me as a "problem".

I believe you are looking for high-shutter speed together with a single flash strobe (just like normal X-synch).
I respect your requirements, I think the conclusion is the Pentax camera/flash won't do it.

I'm starting to do a little more experimenting with HSS myself. I wish the new Radio Popper and Pocket Wizard triggers supported the Pentax platform so I could do off camera sync with studio strobes up to 1/4000. Oh wait, never mind. That wouldn't work on a Pentax even if it was supported because the hot shoe wouldn't be hot above 1/180 anyway.

octavmandru · 07-02-2009, 09:34 AM

Please stop pointing (remainding me of) the limitations.
By the way, I'm sure the off camera sync will work with a cable in HSS. Didn't try it though...

GoldenWreckedAngle · 07-02-2009, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by octavmandru

Please stop pointing (remainding me of) the limitations.
By the way, I'm sure the off camera sync will work with a cable in HSS. Didn't try it though...

LOL - Sorry about that mate. Guess I'm in a bit of a rut on this one and it would probably do me a lot of good to get out of it... one way or another.

Funny you mention the cables. I find myself hand holding my off camera flash out at arms length sometimes and cursing the hit and miss results of the pop-up wireless controller. I'd say that probably about 50% of the time a cable would solve some of my frustrations. Sometimes old school has its place.

RBellavance · 07-02-2009, 11:27 AM

Originally posted by xixco

*smacks head*
so simple, yet so elusive

Be aware that HSS will not work if Auto-ISO is enabled, at least not in Av mode on the K10D.

writeswithlightphoto · 07-02-2009, 12:54 PM

my advice?

stop using a pentax

i switched from my nikon to a k10d and am very happy with it so far, the 1/180 sync thing can be annoying on very fast moving objects, but for the most part, works fine for me

GoldenWreckedAngle · 07-02-2009, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by writeswithlightphoto

my advice?

stop using a pentax

i switched from my nikon to a k10d and am very happy with it so far, the 1/180 sync thing can be annoying on very fast moving objects, but for the most part, works fine for me

Advice noted, thanks.

silverflower · 07-02-2009, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

... I hit the wall at 1/90 even with the pop-up on my K10D. Can anyone else with a K20D confirm 1/180 sync in rear curtain sync mode?

- It's 1/100, not 1/180 with onboard one. I found that after my daughter's graduation prom looking at (some) burned faces from shots taken when she was on stage (low light room and black robes). Really it was not funny to learn that way...

bentax · 07-02-2009, 02:09 PM

You people are confusing the hell out of me. The biggest complaints mentioned in this thread seem to work for me on k20 and Metz 58.

HSS up to 1/4000 - check
Rear curtain to 1/180 X-sync with one click of the mode dial - check.

writeswithlightphoto · 07-02-2009, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

Advice noted, thanks.

im not trying to be a dick, and i understand that message boards are for opinions and to vent, but the flash sync thing isn't happening, so if you want it to work, switch camera bodies, and stop coming up with some witty remark to everyone's suggestions

let it go

ryan s · 07-02-2009, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by writeswithlightphoto

im not trying to be a dick, and i understand that message boards are for opinions and to vent, but the flash sync thing isn't happening, so if you want it to work, switch camera bodies, and stop coming up with some witty remark to everyone's suggestions

let it go

Agreed.

What's the point of this thread? Venting? Solutions? Sympathy? Need a Pentax shoulder to cry on?

Most people here take the "use what works" path and give that advice to others. What else do you want from us? You've already complained to the only Pentax employee here (that we know of) so what else is there? I'd hope JC took note of your concern.

You would not be the first nor only person to have multiple cameras to do different jobs.

octavmandru · 07-02-2009, 05:09 PM

That't the kind of attitude we like... For your info, there's lot of interesting info in this thread, if you bother to read. There's nothing false about the limitations we have. And from limitations, emerges creativity in finding proper solutions, which is part of the game.
So, can we continue our whining, please? I've got some ideeas I'd like to work on.

No wonder JCPentax was acting so defensive.

attack11 · 07-02-2009, 06:19 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

I've been leaving my K10D flash in rear curtain sync mode lately so it's already there when I need it for an action shot. I shot an outdoor event recently and could not get my camera to shoot faster than 1/90 in manual mode when I had my Sigma EF530DG flash turned on. Turn off the flash and I could go as high as I wanted but the second I turn on the flash my shutter speed drops to 1/90. It took me a while to figure out that this is the max sync speed with rear curtain sync. Ugh!

I'm just about done with my K10D's flash limitations... seriously, last straw here.

I want 1/250 sync
I want my flash to fire even when I exceed the sync speed
I want to be able to leave my flash set to rear curtain without loosing even more shutter speed

Pentax, please, make me a camera that takes flash photography seriously. Thank you.

dunno if this was mentioned before, but pttl with a 540's hss will let you exceed the sync easily. it's cool for 1/1000 + full power, etc. i've been meaning to try it with a sound trigger. however, reading the thread makes me think you love trail curtain a little too much and just wanna rant.

07-02-2009, 01:48 PM	#55
silverflower Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Romania Posts: 26	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle ... I hit the wall at 1/90 even with the pop-up on my K10D. Can anyone else with a K20D confirm 1/180 sync in rear curtain sync mode? - It's 1/100, not 1/180 with onboard one. I found that after my daughter's graduation prom looking at (some) burned faces from shots taken when she was on stage (low light room and black robes). Really it was not funny to learn that way... Last edited by silverflower; 07-02-2009 at 01:54 PM.

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07-01-2009, 03:00 PM	#46
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by xixco sorry to threadjack, but i stumbled on this earlier and excitedly just drove to the nearby park on my lunch hour to try it ...and it didn't work. My K10D kicked back to 180th/second every time i hit the shutter. my 540flash was mounted directly onto the camera. Was that the problem? Or did I miss something?? Hit the function button, drop down into the flash settings and choose the high speed sync option.

07-01-2009, 06:41 PM	#47
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle It was shot at 1/320 with flash. Teach me how to do that with my Pentax and I'll kiss ya! I put the flash on High-Speed Synch, shutter at 1/400s and aimed at the fastest moving object in the room - a rotating ceiling fan at normal operating speed. Getting late, I'll have to post the photos tommorow. Here's what I can see :- Does HSS produce multiple images of fast moving objects ? Strictly as a matter of electronics, the answer is "Yes" because that's how HSS functions. As a matter of practical photography ? The fast moving fan blades come out showing motion blur - not surprising at 1/400s. I can't see multiple sharp images, which would have been ugly. You can print it on A4-size, view it on full screen, still OK. I've used at various times a. High shutter speed with High-Speed Synch to deliberately darken the ambient background. It works fine with common photography situations (except high speed objects, where you get motion blur). b. Rear-curtain synch to get the "blurred motion" effect ending with a final sharp flash image. The limits to the Pentax flash are known, and have rarely bothered me as a "problem". I believe you are looking for high-shutter speed together with a single flash strobe (just like normal X-synch). I respect your requirements, I think the conclusion is the Pentax camera/flash won't do it.

07-01-2009, 07:18 PM	#48
xixco Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Worth, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 78	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Hit the function button, drop down into the flash settings and choose the high speed sync option. smacks head so simple, yet so elusive Thanks!!

07-01-2009, 08:35 PM	#49
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by kittykat46 I put the flash on High-Speed Synch, shutter at 1/400s and aimed at the fastest moving object in the room - a rotating ceiling fan at normal operating speed. Getting late, I'll have to post the photos tommorow. Here's what I can see :- Does HSS produce multiple images of fast moving objects ? Strictly as a matter of electronics, the answer is "Yes" because that's how HSS functions. As a matter of practical photography ? The fast moving fan blades come out showing motion blur - not surprising at 1/400s. I can't see multiple sharp images, which would have been ugly. You can print it on A4-size, view it on full screen, still OK. I've used at various times a. High shutter speed with High-Speed Synch to deliberately darken the ambient background. It works fine with common photography situations (except high speed objects, where you get motion blur). b. Rear-curtain synch to get the "blurred motion" effect ending with a final sharp flash image. The limits to the Pentax flash are known, and have rarely bothered me as a "problem". I believe you are looking for high-shutter speed together with a single flash strobe (just like normal X-synch). I respect your requirements, I think the conclusion is the Pentax camera/flash won't do it. I'm starting to do a little more experimenting with HSS myself. I wish the new Radio Popper and Pocket Wizard triggers supported the Pentax platform so I could do off camera sync with studio strobes up to 1/4000. Oh wait, never mind. That wouldn't work on a Pentax even if it was supported because the hot shoe wouldn't be hot above 1/180 anyway.

07-02-2009, 09:34 AM	#50
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Please stop pointing (remainding me of) the limitations. By the way, I'm sure the off camera sync will work with a cable in HSS. Didn't try it though...

07-02-2009, 10:55 AM	#51
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by octavmandru Please stop pointing (remainding me of) the limitations. By the way, I'm sure the off camera sync will work with a cable in HSS. Didn't try it though... LOL - Sorry about that mate. Guess I'm in a bit of a rut on this one and it would probably do me a lot of good to get out of it... one way or another. Funny you mention the cables. I find myself hand holding my off camera flash out at arms length sometimes and cursing the hit and miss results of the pop-up wireless controller. I'd say that probably about 50% of the time a cable would solve some of my frustrations. Sometimes old school has its place.

07-02-2009, 11:27 AM	#52
RBellavance Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Near Montréal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,716	Originally posted by xixco smacks head so simple, yet so elusive Be aware that HSS will not work if Auto-ISO is enabled, at least not in Av mode on the K10D.

07-02-2009, 12:54 PM	#53
writeswithlightphoto Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: manassas, va Posts: 9	my advice? stop using a pentax i switched from my nikon to a k10d and am very happy with it so far, the 1/180 sync thing can be annoying on very fast moving objects, but for the most part, works fine for me

07-02-2009, 01:26 PM	#54
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by writeswithlightphoto my advice? stop using a pentax i switched from my nikon to a k10d and am very happy with it so far, the 1/180 sync thing can be annoying on very fast moving objects, but for the most part, works fine for me Advice noted, thanks.

07-02-2009, 02:09 PM	#56
bentax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Australia Posts: 190	You people are confusing the hell out of me. The biggest complaints mentioned in this thread seem to work for me on k20 and Metz 58. HSS up to 1/4000 - check Rear curtain to 1/180 X-sync with one click of the mode dial - check.

07-02-2009, 02:11 PM	#57
writeswithlightphoto Inactive Account Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: manassas, va Posts: 9	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Advice noted, thanks. im not trying to be a dick, and i understand that message boards are for opinions and to vent, but the flash sync thing isn't happening, so if you want it to work, switch camera bodies, and stop coming up with some witty remark to everyone's suggestions let it go

07-02-2009, 03:42 PM	#58
ryan s Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Madison, WI Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,383	Originally posted by writeswithlightphoto im not trying to be a dick, and i understand that message boards are for opinions and to vent, but the flash sync thing isn't happening, so if you want it to work, switch camera bodies, and stop coming up with some witty remark to everyone's suggestions let it go Agreed. What's the point of this thread? Venting? Solutions? Sympathy? Need a Pentax shoulder to cry on? Most people here take the "use what works" path and give that advice to others. What else do you want from us? You've already complained to the only Pentax employee here (that we know of) so what else is there? I'd hope JC took note of your concern. You would not be the first nor only person to have multiple cameras to do different jobs.

07-02-2009, 05:09 PM	#59
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	That't the kind of attitude we like... For your info, there's lot of interesting info in this thread, if you bother to read. There's nothing false about the limitations we have. And from limitations, emerges creativity in finding proper solutions, which is part of the game. So, can we continue our whining, please? I've got some ideeas I'd like to work on. No wonder JCPentax was acting so defensive.

07-02-2009, 06:19 PM	#60
attack11 Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Ottawa, ON - Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 658	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle I've been leaving my K10D flash in rear curtain sync mode lately so it's already there when I need it for an action shot. I shot an outdoor event recently and could not get my camera to shoot faster than 1/90 in manual mode when I had my Sigma EF530DG flash turned on. Turn off the flash and I could go as high as I wanted but the second I turn on the flash my shutter speed drops to 1/90. It took me a while to figure out that this is the max sync speed with rear curtain sync. Ugh! I'm just about done with my K10D's flash limitations... seriously, last straw here. I want 1/250 sync I want my flash to fire even when I exceed the sync speed I want to be able to leave my flash set to rear curtain without loosing even more shutter speed Pentax, please, make me a camera that takes flash photography seriously. Thank you. dunno if this was mentioned before, but pttl with a 540's hss will let you exceed the sync easily. it's cool for 1/1000 + full power, etc. i've been meaning to try it with a sound trigger. however, reading the thread makes me think you love trail curtain a little too much and just wanna rant.