Ugh, another frustration with sync speed

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-30-2009, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by little laker

I just tried the same technique with my Sigma SD14, along with a Flash Waves radio popper and it appears to be an interesting technique.
At 1/500 you can hardly make out the flash along the top of the frame.

Without the trigger I could only go up to 1/200, which in my opinion is still fine for most work.

I would think that your Pentax would act the same, with a radio popper.
Since I no longer own a Pentax I can't try it and find out.

I missed this post yesterday for some reason but this is one of my growing list of frustrations with the Pentax flash system. It doesn't act the same way, but it definitely needs to. I'm watching the Samsung news and rumors at the moment. There may be a K-mount solution in the near future, we'll see...

... but, it should have been the K-7 (grumble, grumble, mumble and kick the dog)

I really need to just let it go and go shoot something that get's me fired up about my Pentax again. No point in hanging on the negative points of my gear, that never improves my images. The Pentax system is finicky in points, and downright stubborn when it comes to flash, but it can still make magic when you ask it nicely and embrace its strengths.

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-30-2009, 09:17 AM

Originally posted by kunik

I made no mistakes. Sometime between taking pictures the flash had wiggled loose and the connections were apparently no longer lining up properly ...

I swear I'm going to strip my flash's hot shoe threads some day trying to crank that knurled knob down tightly enough to keep this from happening to me all too often. I keep toying with the idea of roughing up the top of my hot shoe with sandpaper a bit to give it a little better grip. The only thing that's kept me from it so far is the future e-bay listing that keeps popping into my head every time I use the Pentax flash system.

cwood · 06-30-2009, 09:21 AM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

I swear I'm going to strip my flash's hot shoe threads some day trying to crank that knurled knob down tightly enough to keep this from happening to me all too often. I keep toying with the idea of roughing up the top of my hot shoe with sandpaper a bit to give it a little better grip. The only thing that's kept me from it so far is the future e-bay listing that keeps popping into my head every time I use the Pentax flash system.

Since getting the 580exII for the Canon I have been thinking all flashes should have a flick-lock attachment like that. I absolutely love how secure it is. But then I started hearing from people that it was breaking a lot... I guess its tougher to build a good system than it would appear.

jamesm007 · 06-30-2009, 09:42 AM

A few years ago I had the Kodak P880 Pro-sumer camera it had everything a dSLR has but no SLR or changing lens! Anyways it used a mechanical shutter, a leaf shutter and could sync with my P20 external flash at any speed. I did some strange things with that ability. I could take a pic in a room lit with an tungsten bulb at 1/4000 and completely eliminate any light coming from the bulb. Having the ability to hi-speed sync with a powerful external flash is something modern dSLRs are in need of and you don't loss any power at speeds > 1/2000, because most time the flash is a very fast burst of light. And BTW a hybrid (non-slr) camera could bring this ability back to us I believe becuse there would be room to bring the shutter up close to the rear element(?). There is so many advantages to hybrids its not funny. With only one loss, the OVF, and thats a big loss!

Just some fun snaps I did a couple years ago, all with the P20 external flash (about like the Pentax AF360) and Kodak P880 with leaf shutter that could work up to 1/4000 with the flash.

I can't find the pics of me freezing things in mid-air, with a speed of 1/2000 you need a lot of light, but if your flash and camera can sync you can throw stuff and take a pic of it, very fun

,

both taken if I remember right at 1/2000 you can freeze the fastest moving subjects with ease!

Dark room lit with one bulb first taken at 1/60, second at over 1/1000 and nothing is lit by the bulb anymore only the flash is lighting the room at this capture speed.

Last edited by jamesm007; 06-30-2009 at 10:01 AM.

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-30-2009, 10:05 AM

I've been learning a bit about leaf shutters lately and they are certainly cool. If I were a little smarter I might try building one into an SLR lens and see what it could do.

krypticide · 06-30-2009, 01:54 PM

Hm, I have my K20D set at rear curtain sync at all times, and I haven't had this 1/90th second limitation. I need to reconfirm this though.

bentax · 06-30-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

No, the moment you turn on the flash in rear curtain sync mode your shutter speed drops to 1/90, the "X" sync speed for that feature.

Hmm thats unfortunate for you. With a Metz58 it automatically cancels rear curtain and starts shooting 1/180.

octavmandru · 06-30-2009, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by krypticide

Hm, I have my K20D set at rear curtain sync at all times, and I haven't had this 1/90th second limitation. I need to reconfirm this though.

I get rear curtain 1/90 sync with Metz. So...

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-30-2009, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by krypticide

Hm, I have my K20D set at rear curtain sync at all times, and I haven't had this 1/90th second limitation. I need to reconfirm this though.

Well maybe I'm wrong then and there is a second flash improvement in addition to the PC port for those who upgraded from the K10D. I hit the wall at 1/90 even with the pop-up on my K10D. Can anyone else with a K20D confirm 1/180 sync in rear curtain sync mode?

GoldenWreckedAngle · 06-30-2009, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by octavmandru

I get rear curtain 1/90 sync with Metz. So...

Which body are you shooting?

octavmandru · 06-30-2009, 07:27 PM

Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle

Which body are you shooting?

The K200D. And Metz 48. And I need to cancel manually the rear curtain to get 1/180 sync.

krypticide · 06-30-2009, 08:40 PM

Doh, I realized that I was setting rear curtain sync wrong. I had it in-body, but not on my Metz. Once I set it on my Metz, the shutter speed went to 1/100th.

The other thing that bothers me is that rear-curtain sync can't be done when triggering a flash manually (e.g. wirelessly).

octavmandru · 07-01-2009, 06:17 AM

I subscribe to this. I can see many situations where you'd like to take the flash off the camera for a rear sync.
For a shot of a speeding car, for ex. This is the main ideea for the function, after all. I guess is difficult to implement this kinda communication.

GoldenWreckedAngle · 07-01-2009, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by bentax

Hmm thats unfortunate for you. With a Metz58 it automatically cancels rear curtain and starts shooting 1/180.

Hmmm, that may be a feature of the Metz58. I wonder how they override the camera settings. The reason I decided against the 58 myself was the max sync speed of 1/125 at full power. What body are you shooting?

xixco · 07-01-2009, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by kittykat46

If I'm not mistaken, the technique in the shot above involves deliberately underexposing the surrounding ambient light using high shutter speed, at the same time brightening up the subject to "normal" using the flash.

Sure, it can be done with Pentax, with a few limitations.

sorry to threadjack, but i stumbled on this earlier and excitedly just drove to the nearby park on my lunch hour to try it ...and it didn't work. My K10D kicked back to 180th/second every time i hit the shutter. my 540flash was mounted directly onto the camera. Was that the problem? Or did I miss something??

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06-30-2009, 09:04 AM	#31
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by little laker I just tried the same technique with my Sigma SD14, along with a Flash Waves radio popper and it appears to be an interesting technique. At 1/500 you can hardly make out the flash along the top of the frame. Without the trigger I could only go up to 1/200, which in my opinion is still fine for most work. I would think that your Pentax would act the same, with a radio popper. Since I no longer own a Pentax I can't try it and find out. I missed this post yesterday for some reason but this is one of my growing list of frustrations with the Pentax flash system. It doesn't act the same way, but it definitely needs to. I'm watching the Samsung news and rumors at the moment. There may be a K-mount solution in the near future, we'll see... ... but, it should have been the K-7 (grumble, grumble, mumble and kick the dog) I really need to just let it go and go shoot something that get's me fired up about my Pentax again. No point in hanging on the negative points of my gear, that never improves my images. The Pentax system is finicky in points, and downright stubborn when it comes to flash, but it can still make magic when you ask it nicely and embrace its strengths.

06-30-2009, 09:17 AM	#32
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by kunik I made no mistakes. Sometime between taking pictures the flash had wiggled loose and the connections were apparently no longer lining up properly ... I swear I'm going to strip my flash's hot shoe threads some day trying to crank that knurled knob down tightly enough to keep this from happening to me all too often. I keep toying with the idea of roughing up the top of my hot shoe with sandpaper a bit to give it a little better grip. The only thing that's kept me from it so far is the future e-bay listing that keeps popping into my head every time I use the Pentax flash system.

06-30-2009, 09:21 AM	#33
cwood Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: California Posts: 851	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle I swear I'm going to strip my flash's hot shoe threads some day trying to crank that knurled knob down tightly enough to keep this from happening to me all too often. I keep toying with the idea of roughing up the top of my hot shoe with sandpaper a bit to give it a little better grip. The only thing that's kept me from it so far is the future e-bay listing that keeps popping into my head every time I use the Pentax flash system. Since getting the 580exII for the Canon I have been thinking all flashes should have a flick-lock attachment like that. I absolutely love how secure it is. But then I started hearing from people that it was breaking a lot... I guess its tougher to build a good system than it would appear.

06-30-2009, 09:42 AM	#34
jamesm007 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Detroit MI, USA Posts: 508	A few years ago I had the Kodak P880 Pro-sumer camera it had everything a dSLR has but no SLR or changing lens! Anyways it used a mechanical shutter, a leaf shutter and could sync with my P20 external flash at any speed. I did some strange things with that ability. I could take a pic in a room lit with an tungsten bulb at 1/4000 and completely eliminate any light coming from the bulb. Having the ability to hi-speed sync with a powerful external flash is something modern dSLRs are in need of and you don't loss any power at speeds > 1/2000, because most time the flash is a very fast burst of light. And BTW a hybrid (non-slr) camera could bring this ability back to us I believe becuse there would be room to bring the shutter up close to the rear element(?). There is so many advantages to hybrids its not funny. With only one loss, the OVF, and thats a big loss! Just some fun snaps I did a couple years ago, all with the P20 external flash (about like the Pentax AF360) and Kodak P880 with leaf shutter that could work up to 1/4000 with the flash. I can't find the pics of me freezing things in mid-air, with a speed of 1/2000 you need a lot of light, but if your flash and camera can sync you can throw stuff and take a pic of it, very fun , both taken if I remember right at 1/2000 you can freeze the fastest moving subjects with ease! Dark room lit with one bulb first taken at 1/60, second at over 1/1000 and nothing is lit by the bulb anymore only the flash is lighting the room at this capture speed. Last edited by jamesm007; 06-30-2009 at 10:01 AM.

06-30-2009, 10:05 AM	#35
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	I've been learning a bit about leaf shutters lately and they are certainly cool. If I were a little smarter I might try building one into an SLR lens and see what it could do.

06-30-2009, 01:54 PM	#36
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	Hm, I have my K20D set at rear curtain sync at all times, and I haven't had this 1/90th second limitation. I need to reconfirm this though.

06-30-2009, 02:17 PM	#37
bentax Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: West Australia Posts: 190	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle No, the moment you turn on the flash in rear curtain sync mode your shutter speed drops to 1/90, the "X" sync speed for that feature. Hmm thats unfortunate for you. With a Metz58 it automatically cancels rear curtain and starts shooting 1/180.

06-30-2009, 06:30 PM	#38
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Originally posted by krypticide Hm, I have my K20D set at rear curtain sync at all times, and I haven't had this 1/90th second limitation. I need to reconfirm this though. I get rear curtain 1/90 sync with Metz. So...

06-30-2009, 07:07 PM	#39
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by krypticide Hm, I have my K20D set at rear curtain sync at all times, and I haven't had this 1/90th second limitation. I need to reconfirm this though. Well maybe I'm wrong then and there is a second flash improvement in addition to the PC port for those who upgraded from the K10D. I hit the wall at 1/90 even with the pop-up on my K10D. Can anyone else with a K20D confirm 1/180 sync in rear curtain sync mode?

06-30-2009, 07:08 PM	#40
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by octavmandru I get rear curtain 1/90 sync with Metz. So... Which body are you shooting?

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06-30-2009, 07:27 PM	#41
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Originally posted by GoldenWreckedAngle Which body are you shooting? The K200D. And Metz 48. And I need to cancel manually the rear curtain to get 1/180 sync.

06-30-2009, 08:40 PM	#42
krypticide Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,079	Doh, I realized that I was setting rear curtain sync wrong. I had it in-body, but not on my Metz. Once I set it on my Metz, the shutter speed went to 1/100th. The other thing that bothers me is that rear-curtain sync can't be done when triggering a flash manually (e.g. wirelessly).

07-01-2009, 06:17 AM	#43
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	I subscribe to this. I can see many situations where you'd like to take the flash off the camera for a rear sync. For a shot of a speeding car, for ex. This is the main ideea for the function, after all. I guess is difficult to implement this kinda communication.

07-01-2009, 06:33 AM	#44
GoldenWreckedAngle Veteran Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Abilene, TX Posts: 339 Original Poster	Originally posted by bentax Hmm thats unfortunate for you. With a Metz58 it automatically cancels rear curtain and starts shooting 1/180. Hmmm, that may be a feature of the Metz58. I wonder how they override the camera settings. The reason I decided against the 58 myself was the max sync speed of 1/125 at full power. What body are you shooting?

07-01-2009, 11:37 AM	#45
xixco Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Fort Worth, TX Photos: Gallery Posts: 78	Originally posted by kittykat46 If I'm not mistaken, the technique in the shot above involves deliberately underexposing the surrounding ambient light using high shutter speed, at the same time brightening up the subject to "normal" using the flash. Sure, it can be done with Pentax, with a few limitations. sorry to threadjack, but i stumbled on this earlier and excitedly just drove to the nearby park on my lunch hour to try it ...and it didn't work. My K10D kicked back to 180th/second every time i hit the shutter. my 540flash was mounted directly onto the camera. Was that the problem? Or did I miss something??