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05-02-2007, 02:34 AM   #16
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Hey Guys, don't get me wrong. I'm delighted to be able to squeeze 40 extra shots on a 2G card. But like John posted, it is a bit weird to see you only have a few shots left, and all of a sudden you've got a lot more.

I don't think it would be too hard to make a software adjustment to recognize when you are shooting pef or dng and adjust the counter according to the average file size of each format. After all, the camera does adjust to the different jpeg sizes.

05-02-2007, 02:39 AM   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by photo_mom Quote
Hi Alan!

Maybe I'm missing something here. I haven't read through all the posts yet. But I have always shot RAW PEF. I only get 122 files on a Sandisk Extreme III 2G card. The counter on the top LED always counts down from 122 to 0, unless I'm in TAv mode where it shows the ISO. But then it briefly changes to the number left before changing back to the ISO.

In the 'C' menu option, I've got the 'Recordable Image No.' option set to 1, which is 'always show recordable images for current card.'

Is this what you want it to do? (uh, besides the part about compressing DNG files. We can always wish and hope...)
Hi Tracy,
You are correct in stating the counter starts at 122 or in my case 123, and that is the actual number of shots I get shooting dng. With pef, although the counter still starts at 123, I actually get 164 shots on a 2G card. What happens, is as the card gets close to filling, the shots remaining changes to reflect a truer estimate. I would guess yours does the same thing.
05-02-2007, 04:13 AM   #18
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Well, I'll be...

QuoteOriginally posted by roscot Quote
Hi Tracy,
You are correct in stating the counter starts at 122 or in my case 123, and that is the actual number of shots I get shooting dng. With pef, although the counter still starts at 123, I actually get 164 shots on a 2G card. What happens, is as the card gets close to filling, the shots remaining changes to reflect a truer estimate. I would guess yours does the same thing.
Hi Alan!

You're right. My mom always did tell me I was too trusting of things electronic and computerized. HA!

I just went outside and took some pictures with a clean 2G card. Started at 122. Took 10 shots. After the last shot, while it was still writing to the card, the count showed 113. Then after the write was finished the count jumped to 114. Tried this sequence several times and the count always went down less than 10 and then jumped up a few once the write was finished. I took a total of 61 shots and the count when I stopped was 79.

At least the count is always higher than what it should be. I'd be upset if it was showing 79 but I only had 61 (which is what it should have shown) left.

Thanks for the heads-up thread!
05-02-2007, 05:29 AM   #19
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Thought a while on this yesterday afternoon. This might be a worthy suggestion:

Ask them to add a page to the preview function, user selectable. It would appear at the push of the review button before the string of images. A list of the last 10 shots, give or take one or two. Each line: shot number, some user decodable string showing shot parameters (aperture/shutter speed/iso), camera mode(manual, program,expsure comp, flash) and file sizes to nearest kbyte.

At the bottom of the page a line: total shots on card, running average of shot sizes, running average of last 10 shots, total bytes remaining on card.

This solves a couple of problems shooters seem to be having: many don't reset shot counter card to card, this would indicate number of images taken, a user could check the setting/paramters of the last few shots to confirm they are as they should be, the user could check to see if their recent files are smaller/larger then the the card average, the user could do their own calculation as to about how many more will fit.

05-02-2007, 06:55 AM   #20
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Can anyone show a difference in image quality between DNG and PEF? Do PEF files converted to DNG by Photoshop have less quality than those produced directly by the K10D?
05-02-2007, 07:46 AM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
Can anyone show a difference in image quality between DNG and PEF? Do PEF files converted to DNG by Photoshop have less quality than those produced directly by the K10D?
I asked this question on the Lightroom beta list last year and a senior Adobe engineer assured me that there is NO data lost converting from PEF to DNG and that, in terms of content (rather than structure), the files are identical. There is no difference in quality at all. DNG is simply a different set of rules, so to speak, for writing the Raw data to the disk. Choosing DNG rather than PEF (or vice versa) has no impact on the amount or "quality" of the data that is saved - unlike the choice between Raw (where you save everything the camera saw originally) and JPEG (where you throw a lot of information away).

The Pentax K10D compresses its PEF files and apparently does not compress the DNG files it produces, so there's a difference in the SIZE of the files. When I convert my PEF files to DNG on my computer using Adobe Lightroom, the DNG files do get compressed (losslessly) and the resulting compressed DNG file is actually slightly smaller than the original compressed PEF. But this has nothing to do with quality. This only has to do with how many files I can store on my hard disk.

As far as I can tell, the K10D can write a DNG file to the card as fast as it writes a PEF file. My tests of this function have been informal, but that's the way it seems to me.

Which brings me back to the question, which format should I use? I've been using PEF because I'm able to fit more photos on a card. I would shoot PEF, then convert on my computer. But I have recently switched and I'm now shooting DNG in the camera. I'm doing this in part as a test to see if this eliminates some little glitches I have experienced in Lightroom when I import and convert PEF files. I have to switch cards sooner now, but that's really not a huge deal and I have enough storage (5.5 GB on four cards).

Will
05-02-2007, 02:01 PM   #22
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K10D - Pef vs Dng Raw - quick way to save steps

Volosong wrote:

"By the way, just this last week, based on a previous discussion, I switched from DNG+ to PEF+. Until someone mentioned it, hadn't realized that PEF files are now compressed. It means an extra step in my workflow (converting from PEF to DNG for archival purposes)."

ImageIngester software can upload the images from the camera or card and 1) save the PEF file to a user specified drive location and file; 2) convert the PEF file to DNG and add IPTC data (copyright etc.) and store the result in another user specified location and 3) copy the resulting DNG's to a third location. Talk about belts & suspenders but if that's not enough you can embed the PEF in the DNG as well. The programs uses Adobe's DNG converter to make the conversion and I find it works well. I have each step saved to a separate drive.

I also tested the Adobe converter's raw extraction function on the DNG file and the PEF was extracted as with no problems.

I got my copy directly from ImageIngeser.com. The price was US$ 40.00
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