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07-29-2009, 05:57 PM   #241
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QuoteOriginally posted by davidt Quote
I have done some more tests on different temperatures:
39C - strong lines
36C - medium lines
33C - no lines
Thats pretty good news, that means a very small modification for better cooling will solve the problem in the next batches, probably they are already did that. So K-7 will not be the end of Pentax, but it just harmed the Pentax reputation a bit.

07-29-2009, 06:28 PM   #242
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nechako Quote
I could only get it up to 38C as it is cooler outside. Is that hot enough?
In my own tests, I only got a line starting at 40C (preproduction camera).

Maybe, don't try. It's not that important, after all. If you happen to shoot in hot temperatures and/or after using movie recording, it would be nice to share a DNG. If hotter than 40C and w/o line.

Anyway, from this 42C image, you may still have the original JPG. I may be good enough for a brief examination.
07-29-2009, 07:10 PM   #243
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Here is the 42C jpg. It isn't great and I'm a little embarrassed to post it.

File-Upload.net - IMGP0599.JPG

Hopefully this link works.

To get it that hot I used live view for a bit then took 15min of video while it was sitting in the blazing sun on my car. I don't think I could ever get it that hot with normal shooting.

I'm hesitant to keep getting it so hot as I don't want to damage it.

Richard
07-29-2009, 07:21 PM   #244
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
Thats pretty good news, that means a very small modification for better cooling will solve the problem in the next batches, probably they are already did that. So K-7 will not be the end of Pentax, but it just harmed the Pentax reputation a bit.
considering canon and nikon have had as bad or worse issues with new cameras this shouldn't hurt pentax's rep too much.

07-29-2009, 07:27 PM   #245
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QuoteOriginally posted by Nechako Quote
Here is the 42C jpg. It isn't great and I'm a little embarrassed to post it.

File-Upload.net - IMGP0599.JPG

Hopefully this link works.

To get it that hot I used live view for a bit then took 15min of video while it was sitting in the blazing sun on my car. I don't think I could ever get it that hot with normal shooting.

I'm hesitant to keep getting it so hot as I don't want to damage it.

Richard
well you don't have a line, but you do have a few hot pixels but that can be expected, a pixel remap will fix that up easy.
07-29-2009, 09:25 PM   #246
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
yup thats what I was getting. whats you ser#, all mine were 3377xxx, 3378xxx, 3379xxx , so far it looks like 338xxxx and higher don't have this issue ( so far )
Mine is 3379xxx and a green line starts showing up after a couple minutes of live view

Over the 5 minutes I ran this last test the reported camera temperature went from 25 to 27 degrees C, with the green line showing up around 26 degrees. However, in the last few days I took other shots at higher camera temperatures that were just fine. It seems that the temperature sensor gives only a general idea of internal camera temperature, not the actual temperature of the component causing the green lines (the sensor itself?).
07-29-2009, 09:41 PM   #247
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
yup thats what I was getting. whats you ser#, all mine were 3377xxx, 3378xxx, 3379xxx , so far it looks like 338xxxx and higher don't have this issue ( so far )
No - my 3381xxx has the issue also (lines due to heat, which go away after cooling down)! So we have:
  • 3377xxx
  • 3378xxx
  • 3379xxx
  • 3381xxx

QuoteOriginally posted by Nechako Quote
To get it that hot I used live view for a bit then took 15min of video while it was sitting in the blazing sun on my car. I don't think I could ever get it that hot with normal shooting.

I'm hesitant to keep getting it so hot as I don't want to damage it.

Richard
You will get it so hot again as soon you make your summer sun family video. In less than 15mins. So far I think I wasn't able to shoot longer than 15mins (incl. breaks).
07-29-2009, 10:00 PM   #248
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
Thats pretty good news, that means a very small modification for better cooling will solve the problem in the next batches, probably they are already did that. So K-7 will not be the end of Pentax, but it just harmed the Pentax reputation a bit.
But what if the air temperature is 39C already? ;-)
I'm not sure if it's just a small firmware mod enabling more efficient processing - I assume it's hard to get the heat out of a wheater sealed body...on the other hand it's a metal body so probably not.

07-29-2009, 11:13 PM   #249
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QuoteOriginally posted by davidt Quote
But what if the air temperature is 39C already? ;-)
I'm not sure if it's just a small firmware mod enabling more efficient processing - I assume it's hard to get the heat out of a wheater sealed body...on the other hand it's a metal body so probably not.
I don't think any software could solve the cooling problem.
07-29-2009, 11:28 PM   #250
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QuoteOriginally posted by davidt Quote
No - my 3381xxx has the issue also (lines due to heat, which go away after cooling down)! So we have:
  • 3377xxx
  • 3378xxx
  • 3379xxx
  • 3381xxx
Well there goes that idea.
07-29-2009, 11:43 PM   #251
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
I don't think any software could solve the cooling problem.
It's possible to optimize the alorithms to be more efficient and complete faster with less processing power > less heat generated. But only within a certain range. Your are true, in case of the movie mode that even if you optimize a lot it will affect the heat issue just a very little. My only hope is that there is possibly a huuge software bug which causes unnessecary stress on the processor > heat. Bugs are quite common in software projects.. ;-)

QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
Well there goes that idea.
Anybody has a 3380xxx to complete the list?
07-29-2009, 11:44 PM   #252
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
yup thats what I was getting. whats you ser#, all mine were 3377xxx, 3378xxx, 3379xxx , so far it looks like 338xxxx and higher don't have this issue ( so far )
may be it is better to use serial numbers from tags reported by photome where you can also get the date when camera was manufactured and camera revision#, not from some labels attached to the camera bodies...
07-29-2009, 11:45 PM   #253
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
Well there goes that idea.
My guess is that we have two possibilities:

1. Every K7 is prone to this issue and not everyone sees it due to differences in usage and ambient conditions (ie a design flaw).

2. Random K7s are prone to this issue due to sensor inconsistencies or other parts (ie a parts/manufacturing flaw).

I think firmware *could* solve this if you're seeing artifact from an interaction between various components that can be managed by software. But I wouldn't bet on it. It is obvious that these larger sensors are challenged by live-view/video. Small sensors (as seen on p&s and non-broadcast video cameras) evidently don't suffer from the heat or other issues. Stuffing things in tighter quarters only complicates matters.

There are compromises that have to be made. It might be that you can't "go small" without other design changes. Be interesting to see how it shakes out.
07-30-2009, 02:56 AM   #254
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I am at 33780xx and can't replicate the issue.

I have tried live view for an hour. NO green line but sensor only got to 32deg C. NO temp warning.

Just then I tried video mode until i got temp warning (took approx 15mins) and still got NO green line in stills. Sensor still only got to 33deg C.

So what we know..... video heats it up more than live view. Appears that temp warning comes on at 33deg C.

I have to test mine in higher temps.

mike
07-30-2009, 03:08 AM   #255
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
I don't think any software could solve the cooling problem.
Aggreed! Software couldn't do that. The only way to turn around the problem is the SW to get the green line and paint it gray!

Rui
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