K7 busted sensor strikes production body

tcom · 09-02-2009, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by Croc

as i said i had two lines at 38C, my new test shots were at 39C with no lines but since i knew where lines where from the "before" shots i did some serious pixel peeping and there is NOTHING out of place there that i could see at very deep zoom so whatever they done is very good fix.

Good to hear it works for you as well.

Originally posted by Croc

also i think it is crazy to think pentax is doing anything ugly here that others don't do, every cpu, every gpu got some corrections done and there is nothing wrong with that.
i even remember reading while ago that there was some nikon model with almost identical issues and got firmware fix for it with no side effect of any kind so things are looking good for K7.

The only problem I do see is that a customer going to the website of Pentax is not able to tell if the 1.01 showing in the firmware updates is newer than the 1.01 installed on his camera.

Apart from that, I am really happy with that fix. I contacted them telling that I will leave for Namibia in a few weeks and told them that I will certainly not take a camera producing lines when the sensor gets warm.

My guess is that the official fix is planned for 1.02, but they did a quick fix on 1.01 for customers like me urging them for a solution. This satisfies the customer, and leave them more time to finalize 1.02 with probably other fixes and changes.

falconeye · 09-02-2009, 05:09 AM

Originally posted by Peter Zack

Why don't one of you (I haven't bought this camera yet), who has updated the firmware and found the camera now fine, start a new thread to tell everyone that this works. Spread a little good news that they have taken care of the problem.

Nass did this already.

However, I think we should keep the good news in this thread (bookmarked by half of the world anyway

) until FW 1.02 is officially announced. I know that Pentax would like to announce the good news alongside the upcoming 1.02 release. Having two threads makes discussion about it awkward too.

But how about a poll at the moment 1.02 is released: If K-7 owners consider the GLS an issue of the past?

jgredline · 09-02-2009, 07:50 AM

I must be as blind as a bat, but I can't seem to find what firware version I have in photo me. Can someone point me to where it is located?

jgredline · 09-02-2009, 08:08 AM

Hi folks,
If someone could tell me what firware version I have, I would greatly appreciate it. Here is a 100% crop.

falconeye · 09-02-2009, 08:13 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

Here is a 100% crop

Javier G.,
this crop retains your full name but not the camera infos. You must not look at an image saved by CS3

jgredline · 09-02-2009, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Javier G.,
this crop retains your full name but not the camera infos. You must not look at an image saved by CS3

I tried that and still could not see it.

falconeye · 09-02-2009, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by jgredline

I tried that and still could not see it.

It is in main section "vendor information" (or whatever it is in English), about field #30 in this section, between time zone infos and exposure value. Called

DSP firmware version
CPU firmware version

Tag-IDs 0027 & 0028

jgredline · 09-02-2009, 08:34 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

It is in main section "vendor information" (or whatever it is in English), about field #30 in this section, between time zone infos and exposure value. Called

DSP firmware version
CPU firmware version

Tag-IDs 0027 & 0028

Found it thank you

Croc · 09-02-2009, 09:24 AM

was it .05? also what temperature was shown in exif for that shot?

kjellhar · 09-02-2009, 10:12 AM

I just upgraded from 1.01.00.05 to 1.01.00.09, and it seems to have solved the problem.

In case anyone wants to dissect a couple of raw files, I made a before/after shot of a OOF wall after approx 3min video. The ISO was set to 3200. The temperature inside the camera was remarkably low, but the green line showed up even at 25C on the old firmware. On the new, there was no line at 28C.

You'll find the files here (at least for a couple of weeks):
Index of /download

rawr · 09-02-2009, 04:38 PM

Out of curiosity, what is people's assessment of how the firmware achieves the green line fix?

Is the fix akin to pixel mapping? Or has the firmware done something to, for example, better regulate power consumption (and therefore heat) of the sensor? And does the fix have any implications for IQ?

falconeye · 09-02-2009, 05:42 PM

Originally posted by rawr

Out of curiosity, what is people's assessment of how the firmware achieves the green line fix?

Is the fix akin to pixel mapping? Or has the firmware done something to, for example, better regulate power consumption (and therefore heat) of the sensor? And does the fix have any implications for IQ?

Pentax won't tell us.

The fix can't be seen in pixel peeping, it doesn't seem to have been achieved by any kind of pixel mapping. And the sensor can still become hot.

GordonBGood developed the theory that the green line resulted from a software bug in the PRIME-II algorithm which evaluates the unexposed border pixels to minimize (the otherwise unavoidable) pattern noise in the RAW data. He thinks that the fix may be a rather cool achievement by Pentax engineering. If he is right, than the fix actually fixes the root cause rather than masking it. But we don't know.

From visual inspection of samples I've seen, I would say that IQ is not negatively impacted. Maybe, others can comment about this as I haven't seen many samples.

juice · 09-02-2009, 06:03 PM

I have had my K7 for little under one week but have not experienced the problem. I updated to 1.01 on Saturday 29th August (Australian EST), from the Pentax Japan website. EXIF info shows I'm on 09 firmware, so 09 must have been released at least by 29th August AEST.

kittykat46 · 09-02-2009, 06:18 PM

There's a quick way to see that the new firmware file is different from the old one.
The direct download .exe file for Windows is slightly larger - 9.510 MB for the new one compared to 9.504 MB for the old firmware, which I still kept in the old directory.

Anyway, I didn't have the green line in the old version, I still don't have the green line. Nothing else has been changed, as far as I can see.

Urs · 09-02-2009, 07:28 PM

Just installed the new version, hope that problem is solved now.

Thanks everybody for all the infos!

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09-02-2009, 05:01 AM	#421
tcom Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Switzerland Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,293	Originally posted by Croc as i said i had two lines at 38C, my new test shots were at 39C with no lines but since i knew where lines where from the "before" shots i did some serious pixel peeping and there is NOTHING out of place there that i could see at very deep zoom so whatever they done is very good fix. Good to hear it works for you as well. Originally posted by Croc also i think it is crazy to think pentax is doing anything ugly here that others don't do, every cpu, every gpu got some corrections done and there is nothing wrong with that. i even remember reading while ago that there was some nikon model with almost identical issues and got firmware fix for it with no side effect of any kind so things are looking good for K7. The only problem I do see is that a customer going to the website of Pentax is not able to tell if the 1.01 showing in the firmware updates is newer than the 1.01 installed on his camera. Apart from that, I am really happy with that fix. I contacted them telling that I will leave for Namibia in a few weeks and told them that I will certainly not take a camera producing lines when the sensor gets warm. My guess is that the official fix is planned for 1.02, but they did a quick fix on 1.01 for customers like me urging them for a solution. This satisfies the customer, and leave them more time to finalize 1.02 with probably other fixes and changes.

09-02-2009, 05:09 AM	#422
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by Peter Zack Why don't one of you (I haven't bought this camera yet), who has updated the firmware and found the camera now fine, start a new thread to tell everyone that this works. Spread a little good news that they have taken care of the problem. Nass did this already. However, I think we should keep the good news in this thread (bookmarked by half of the world anyway ) until FW 1.02 is officially announced. I know that Pentax would like to announce the good news alongside the upcoming 1.02 release. Having two threads makes discussion about it awkward too. But how about a poll at the moment 1.02 is released: If K-7 owners consider the GLS an issue of the past?

09-02-2009, 07:50 AM	#423
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	I must be as blind as a bat, but I can't seem to find what firware version I have in photo me. Can someone point me to where it is located?

09-02-2009, 08:08 AM	#424
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Hi folks, If someone could tell me what firware version I have, I would greatly appreciate it. Here is a 100% crop.

09-02-2009, 08:13 AM	#425
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by jgredline Here is a 100% crop Javier G., this crop retains your full name but not the camera infos. You must not look at an image saved by CS3

09-02-2009, 08:14 AM	#426
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by falconeye Javier G., this crop retains your full name but not the camera infos. You must not look at an image saved by CS3 I tried that and still could not see it.

09-02-2009, 08:20 AM	#427
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by jgredline I tried that and still could not see it. It is in main section "vendor information" (or whatever it is in English), about field #30 in this section, between time zone infos and exposure value. Called DSP firmware version CPU firmware version Tag-IDs 0027 & 0028

09-02-2009, 08:34 AM	#428
jgredline Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: LosAngeles, Ca. Photos: Albums Posts: 10,628	Originally posted by falconeye It is in main section "vendor information" (or whatever it is in English), about field #30 in this section, between time zone infos and exposure value. Called DSP firmware version CPU firmware version Tag-IDs 0027 & 0028 Found it thank you

09-02-2009, 09:24 AM	#429
Croc Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Moon Posts: 87	was it .05? also what temperature was shown in exif for that shot?

09-02-2009, 10:12 AM	#430
kjellhar Inactive Account Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 29	I just upgraded from 1.01.00.05 to 1.01.00.09, and it seems to have solved the problem. In case anyone wants to dissect a couple of raw files, I made a before/after shot of a OOF wall after approx 3min video. The ISO was set to 3200. The temperature inside the camera was remarkably low, but the green line showed up even at 25C on the old firmware. On the new, there was no line at 28C. You'll find the files here (at least for a couple of weeks): Index of /download

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

09-02-2009, 04:38 PM	#431
rawr Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 11,913	Out of curiosity, what is people's assessment of how the firmware achieves the green line fix? Is the fix akin to pixel mapping? Or has the firmware done something to, for example, better regulate power consumption (and therefore heat) of the sensor? And does the fix have any implications for IQ?

09-02-2009, 05:42 PM	#432
falconeye Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Munich, Alps, Germany Photos: Gallery Posts: 6,871	Originally posted by rawr Out of curiosity, what is people's assessment of how the firmware achieves the green line fix? Is the fix akin to pixel mapping? Or has the firmware done something to, for example, better regulate power consumption (and therefore heat) of the sensor? And does the fix have any implications for IQ? Pentax won't tell us. The fix can't be seen in pixel peeping, it doesn't seem to have been achieved by any kind of pixel mapping. And the sensor can still become hot. GordonBGood developed the theory that the green line resulted from a software bug in the PRIME-II algorithm which evaluates the unexposed border pixels to minimize (the otherwise unavoidable) pattern noise in the RAW data. He thinks that the fix may be a rather cool achievement by Pentax engineering. If he is right, than the fix actually fixes the root cause rather than masking it. But we don't know. From visual inspection of samples I've seen, I would say that IQ is not negatively impacted. Maybe, others can comment about this as I haven't seen many samples.

09-02-2009, 06:03 PM	#433
juice Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Gold Coast, Australia Posts: 64	I have had my K7 for little under one week but have not experienced the problem. I updated to 1.01 on Saturday 29th August (Australian EST), from the Pentax Japan website. EXIF info shows I'm on 09 firmware, so 09 must have been released at least by 29th August AEST.

09-02-2009, 06:18 PM	#434
kittykat46 Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 923	There's a quick way to see that the new firmware file is different from the old one. The direct download .exe file for Windows is slightly larger - 9.510 MB for the new one compared to 9.504 MB for the old firmware, which I still kept in the old directory. Anyway, I didn't have the green line in the old version, I still don't have the green line. Nothing else has been changed, as far as I can see.

09-02-2009, 07:28 PM	#435
Urs Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Panama Posts: 804	Just installed the new version, hope that problem is solved now. Thanks everybody for all the infos!