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07-09-2009, 07:44 AM   #1
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K-7 high ISO vs K20D high ISO

Unfortunately, I think my K-7 actually performs worse than the K20D. Just did a simple test with both camera in my dimly lit livingroom on a tripod and some of my daughter's toys. Both raw files (K7 using DNG, K20D using PEF), imported into iPhoto and screen captured in TIFF. Apart from K-7 giving much better white balance, the K20D wins in amount of noise present and details retained...

1. F5, 1/15 @50mm, ISO 1600 (DA*50-135mm) - K7 left, K20D right
ISO1600 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

2. F8, 1/13 @50mm, ISO 3200 (DA*50-135mm) - K7 left, K20D right
ISO3200 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Just want to know if this is what you people with both camera have observed.

If so, I'm a little disappointed...

07-09-2009, 08:02 AM   #2
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interesting WB difference
07-09-2009, 08:15 AM   #3
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I think you're right there. It looks like the K-7 has more color noise, while the K20D still limits noise mostly to luminance. Hrm...
07-09-2009, 08:28 AM   #4
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It is definitely worse than the K20D here...hmmmm....interesting to see what others who own both can post.....

07-09-2009, 08:37 AM   #5
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Thanks for your test.
After checking the high iso photos from several K7(production model) owners online, it seems that K-7 has the same or a bit worse high iso noise as or than K20D.
I would probably get K-7 because of its great improvements other than iso performance (compared to K20D) even though the high iso noise kind of disappoints me.
07-09-2009, 08:39 AM   #6
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Interesting. Be good to have the same color temperature though across both samples.

Also the depth of field seems slightly different in the photos, with the K20D's DOF bringing some of the rear details into focus while they remain out of focus a tad in the K7 image.

But the K7 does seem to have coarser noise grain across the board. What did the supposed K7 sensor tweaking do?
07-09-2009, 09:03 AM   #7
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might be worth trying to redo your test with WB set by hand instead of auto but as is it would seem that shot is more crisp on k7 and almost as if the k20 had slight noise rudction done
07-09-2009, 09:16 AM   #8
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My K7 just arrived, charging the batteries now so will test vs the K20D in a bit

07-09-2009, 09:23 AM   #9
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I'm not rebutting here, but what were the NR settings on both cameras when you performed the test? Was High ISO NR turned OFF on both bodies?
07-09-2009, 09:24 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Croc Quote
might be worth trying to redo your test with WB set by hand instead of auto but as is it would seem that shot is more crisp on k7 and almost as if the k20 had slight noise rudction done
I agree... looks like NR on the K20 shot. But they're both from RAW?
07-09-2009, 09:26 AM   #11
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Have you converted to monochrome? Looks to me like the K7 image would take to that pp better than the K20. Since I do a fair amount of b&w, this "test" actually sways me towards the K7.
07-09-2009, 09:40 AM   #12
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Sorry, but I disagree. K7 has more detail, better colors, better white balance. You have helped persuade me to buy one.

Thanks
07-09-2009, 09:44 AM   #13
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Wow. That sucks. Since I still own a K10, I think I may just opt for the K20 deal at Wal mart if it's still available. So far, I've not read anything that backs up any substantial "real world" improvement over the K20.
07-09-2009, 10:28 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by supa007 Quote
Unfortunately, I think my K-7 actually performs worse than the K20D. Just did a simple test with both camera in my dimly lit livingroom on a tripod and some of my daughter's toys. Both raw files (K7 using DNG, K20D using PEF), imported into iPhoto and screen captured in TIFF. Apart from K-7 giving much better white balance, the K20D wins in amount of noise present and details retained...

1. F5, 1/15 @50mm, ISO 1600 (DA*50-135mm) - K7 left, K20D right
ISO1600 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

2. F8, 1/13 @50mm, ISO 3200 (DA*50-135mm) - K7 left, K20D right
ISO3200 on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Just want to know if this is what you people with both camera have observed.

If so, I'm a little disappointed...
I much prefer the K-7 at ISO 1600. It has so much more detail that you can see surface textures that are completely gone in the K20D pic. I ran it through my NR program (Dfine) a got it looking quite presentable.

The ISO 3200 shot is more problematic, but once again, the K-7 shows more detail. Dfine makes it very usable.

It does appear that high ISO noise may not be improved in the K-7. For my purposes, I just want good detail retention at ISO 1600 with unobtrusive noise that can be dealt with in PP. So far, I think the K-7 will deliver that. Those who want absolutely clean and detailed images at ISO 3200 and above have got to adjust their expectations for what an APS-C camera can do. If the K20D does as well or better than the K-7 in that department, some people may hesitate to upgrade. Just remember that noise/grain are not always enemies that must be completely eliminated.

P.S. I am eagerly waiting for DxO Optics Pro to support the K-7. It has unique noise removal before demosaicisation that is really excellent at high ISOs.

Rob

Last edited by robgo2; 07-09-2009 at 10:34 AM.
07-09-2009, 10:44 AM   #15
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Since I sold my K20D away, I can't do a direct comparison, but my initial response to high ISO was great; while with the K20D I felt ISO800 the upper limit for me, personally, I don't mind the ISO1600 pictures coming out of my K-7 at all.

Regarding the comparison, if I remember correctly, there was no way to completely turn off NR on the K20D (which is one of things people bitched about). Please make sure that whatever is happening, you are comparing apples to apples
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