Why don't DSLR cameras report sensor temp/shutter count ?

eva2000 · 07-12-2009, 08:27 AM

Been playing with my K-7 some more and with photome being able to report sensor temps and shutter count, the question I ask myself is why can't the DSLR camera's actually report that stuff in camera ?

lurchlarson · 07-12-2009, 08:32 AM

I don't know that most photographers would benefit from knowing the sensor temp in camera. As far as shutter count, I think the Professional Canikons do report that.

With the limited resources of Pentax, I don't know that implementing either of those functions was seen as "useful" to most photographers by the engineers. Therefore they didn't implement them in order to save money.

That's just my best guess.

Dr_who · 07-12-2009, 09:17 AM

the K7 if you run video for extended time will let you know that the tempature is getting hot on the back lcd.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-12-2009, 09:23 AM

What would you do with the information if you had it any way.

Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo?

The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient

MJB DIGITAL · 07-12-2009, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

What would you do with the information if you had it any way.

Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo?

The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient

higher sensor temp = more noise as heat can distort the signals a bit, so i have heard. knowing the sensor temp can help you to pace your shooting to keep a cooler sensor.

i would like to have that info on a wedding when i am shooting heavy....

pingflood · 07-12-2009, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by lurchlarson

I don't know that most photographers would benefit from knowing the sensor temp in camera. As far as shutter count, I think the Professional Canikons do report that.

My "Canikon" does not report shutter count in camera, nor do I know of one that does. The only camera I own with that feature is my GA645.

Not sure why you'd want it in your Penlympus.

JonPB · 07-12-2009, 10:40 PM

I don't know about the K-7, but on my GX-10, when shooting jpg but not dng, I get both "Camera Temperature" in centigrade and "Shutter Count." For what it's worth, I took 40 exposures in a row and the last was the same as the first: 19 C. I also took two 30 second exposures in a row, and they're both 20 C.

eva2000 · 07-13-2009, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

What would you do with the information if you had it any way.

Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo?

The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient

Just something convenient - as I like to know how many photos I take per battery charge and not all photos I take from camera make it onto my computer to check the EXIF info.

Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL

higher sensor temp = more noise as heat can distort the signals a bit, so i have heard. knowing the sensor temp can help you to pace your shooting to keep a cooler sensor.

i would like to have that info on a wedding when i am shooting heavy....

yeah that's what i was getting at.. it might be useful for some especially with DSLR with live view and temp dependent sensor operations.

41ants · 07-13-2009, 05:18 AM

Shutter count is helpful if you were ever to sell the camera as it could help determine the average remaining life expectancy. Also, as a buyer of a used camera it would be easier to catch a dishonest seller in a lie.

Wheatfield · 07-13-2009, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by Lowell Goudge

What would you do with the information if you had it any way.

Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo?

The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient

Good point. I think people are getting a little bit overly anal about things which don't matter to the picture taking process. It's nice that there is information available about shutter speed, focal length and aperture used, I really don't see why anyone outside of a repair shop would care about anything else.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-13-2009, 06:21 AM

Originally posted by 41ants

Shutter count is helpful if you were ever to sell the camera as it could help determine the average remaining life expectancy. Also, as a buyer of a used camera it would be easier to catch a dishonest seller in a lie.

but you can do this with a photo containing exif data. then if it were found to be deliberately wrong, you would have absolute legal standing. so no issue.. Not needed by menus.

**Lowell Goudge** · 07-13-2009, 06:29 AM

Originally posted by eva2000

Just something convenient - as I like to know how many photos I take per battery charge and not all photos I take from camera make it onto my computer to check the EXIF info.

that's why you have a shot counter, you can see easily, or simply note the counter number each time you change batteries. Also battery life is sooo dependant upon things like use of flash, focusing assist (K7) and photo review and how much time you play with each scene checking exposure focus etc, that I don't think it really matters. I doubt you shoot 2 successive batteries the same way.

Quote:

yeah that's what i was getting at.. it might be useful for some especially with DSLR with live view and temp dependent sensor operations.

no offence intended, but isn't this going a little too far? I mean what are you going to do, wait until the sensor cools down between shots? Are you really so good or so particular, and your potential customers so particular that they either won't take a shot from you because you were 2C above their hypothetical limit of sensor temperature.

this may be one case where just because there is some data potentially available, that people are asking for it only because it is possible.

How about a challenge. Show me Identical images, shot with Identical settings in the camera and a big difference in sensor temperature between the two, and then comment about the easily detectable differences in image quality.

Until someone shows this to be true, I will retain my opinion that it is not necessary data.

**mtngal** · 07-13-2009, 07:11 AM

Interesting discussion. Saturday I discovered the K-7 line after shooting a couple of very short movies. Extracted the temperture and noticed what temperatures the pictures were taken at (35, 36C). Then Sunday I went hiking where it was hot - the air temperatures were above 32 C in the shade, and there was no shade. Looked at the temperature of all the shots taken and some were hotter than the ones from Saturday with the line (40, 41C). No lines in any of them. So I don't think the temperature tells the whole story about what's going on. And as a practical thing, I haven't seen a difference in noise between pictures taken in the heat and pictures taken in the cold. While it could be theoretically possible that noise increases with heat, it doesn't seem to be enough for me to notice.

I found finding out the temperature an interesting exercise, but absolutely would hate having a camera that required me to monitor it. I have trouble enough trying to keep straight and notice all of the things that are important to my shooting (aperture, SR, shutter speed, ISO, dynamic range, focal length, etc.) so I sure wouldn't want to be distracted by the sensor temperature.

awo425 · 07-13-2009, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by lurchlarson

I don't know that most photographers would benefit from knowing the sensor temp in camera. As far as shutter count, I think the Professional Canikons do report that.

With the limited resources of Pentax, I don't know that implementing either of those functions was seen as "useful" to most photographers by the engineers. Therefore they didn't implement them in order to save money.

That's just my best guess.

These features cost nothing to implement. If information is already monitored and recorded IN EXIF displaying it in menu is something software specialist can do in 20 mins.

Wheatfield · 07-13-2009, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by awo425

These features cost nothing to implement. If information is already monitored and recorded IN EXIF displaying it in menu is something software specialist can do in 20 mins.

And then the engineers have to find a spot for it on the LCD screen and they have to add a menu option to turn the damned thing off, all of which is going to add to the cost, and this doesn't take into account that you pulled a number out of your nether orifice with nothing to back it up.
All this to implement a feature of no practical use?
Get real.

07-12-2009, 08:27 AM	#1
eva2000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 239	Why don't DSLR cameras report sensor temp/shutter count ? Been playing with my K-7 some more and with photome being able to report sensor temps and shutter count, the question I ask myself is why can't the DSLR camera's actually report that stuff in camera ?

07-12-2009, 09:23 AM	#4
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Does it matter What would you do with the information if you had it any way. Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo? The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient

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07-12-2009, 08:32 AM	#2
lurchlarson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Oregon, USA Photos: Albums Posts: 681	I don't know that most photographers would benefit from knowing the sensor temp in camera. As far as shutter count, I think the Professional Canikons do report that. With the limited resources of Pentax, I don't know that implementing either of those functions was seen as "useful" to most photographers by the engineers. Therefore they didn't implement them in order to save money. That's just my best guess.

07-12-2009, 09:17 AM	#3
Dr_who Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 777	the K7 if you run video for extended time will let you know that the tempature is getting hot on the back lcd.

07-12-2009, 01:36 PM	#5
MJB DIGITAL Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: st. louis Posts: 1,170	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge What would you do with the information if you had it any way. Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo? The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient higher sensor temp = more noise as heat can distort the signals a bit, so i have heard. knowing the sensor temp can help you to pace your shooting to keep a cooler sensor. i would like to have that info on a wedding when i am shooting heavy....

07-12-2009, 05:11 PM	#6
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by lurchlarson I don't know that most photographers would benefit from knowing the sensor temp in camera. As far as shutter count, I think the Professional Canikons do report that. My "Canikon" does not report shutter count in camera, nor do I know of one that does. The only camera I own with that feature is my GA645. Not sure why you'd want it in your Penlympus.

07-12-2009, 10:40 PM	#7
JonPB Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Portland, OR, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 430	I don't know about the K-7, but on my GX-10, when shooting jpg but not dng, I get both "Camera Temperature" in centigrade and "Shutter Count." For what it's worth, I took 40 exposures in a row and the last was the same as the first: 19 C. I also took two 30 second exposures in a row, and they're both 20 C.

07-13-2009, 04:23 AM	#8
eva2000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 239 Original Poster	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge What would you do with the information if you had it any way. Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo? The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient Just something convenient - as I like to know how many photos I take per battery charge and not all photos I take from camera make it onto my computer to check the EXIF info. Originally posted by MJB DIGITAL higher sensor temp = more noise as heat can distort the signals a bit, so i have heard. knowing the sensor temp can help you to pace your shooting to keep a cooler sensor. i would like to have that info on a wedding when i am shooting heavy.... yeah that's what i was getting at.. it might be useful for some especially with DSLR with live view and temp dependent sensor operations.

07-13-2009, 05:18 AM	#9
41ants Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SRQ Photos: Albums Posts: 139	Shutter count is helpful if you were ever to sell the camera as it could help determine the average remaining life expectancy. Also, as a buyer of a used camera it would be easier to catch a dishonest seller in a lie.

07-13-2009, 06:10 AM	#10
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by Lowell Goudge What would you do with the information if you had it any way. Is knowing shutter count going to stop you frpom taking a photo? The fact it is recorded when you take the shot is sufficient Good point. I think people are getting a little bit overly anal about things which don't matter to the picture taking process. It's nice that there is information available about shutter speed, focal length and aperture used, I really don't see why anyone outside of a repair shop would care about anything else.

07-13-2009, 06:21 AM	#11
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by 41ants Shutter count is helpful if you were ever to sell the camera as it could help determine the average remaining life expectancy. Also, as a buyer of a used camera it would be easier to catch a dishonest seller in a lie. but you can do this with a photo containing exif data. then if it were found to be deliberately wrong, you would have absolute legal standing. so no issue.. Not needed by menus.

07-13-2009, 06:29 AM	#12
Lowell Goudge Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 17,886	Originally posted by eva2000 Just something convenient - as I like to know how many photos I take per battery charge and not all photos I take from camera make it onto my computer to check the EXIF info. that's why you have a shot counter, you can see easily, or simply note the counter number each time you change batteries. Also battery life is sooo dependant upon things like use of flash, focusing assist (K7) and photo review and how much time you play with each scene checking exposure focus etc, that I don't think it really matters. I doubt you shoot 2 successive batteries the same way. Quote: yeah that's what i was getting at.. it might be useful for some especially with DSLR with live view and temp dependent sensor operations. no offence intended, but isn't this going a little too far? I mean what are you going to do, wait until the sensor cools down between shots? Are you really so good or so particular, and your potential customers so particular that they either won't take a shot from you because you were 2C above their hypothetical limit of sensor temperature. this may be one case where just because there is some data potentially available, that people are asking for it only because it is possible. How about a challenge. Show me Identical images, shot with Identical settings in the camera and a big difference in sensor temperature between the two, and then comment about the easily detectable differences in image quality. Until someone shows this to be true, I will retain my opinion that it is not necessary data.

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07-13-2009, 07:11 AM	#13
mtngal Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Wherever I’m Parked Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,003	Interesting discussion. Saturday I discovered the K-7 line after shooting a couple of very short movies. Extracted the temperture and noticed what temperatures the pictures were taken at (35, 36C). Then Sunday I went hiking where it was hot - the air temperatures were above 32 C in the shade, and there was no shade. Looked at the temperature of all the shots taken and some were hotter than the ones from Saturday with the line (40, 41C). No lines in any of them. So I don't think the temperature tells the whole story about what's going on. And as a practical thing, I haven't seen a difference in noise between pictures taken in the heat and pictures taken in the cold. While it could be theoretically possible that noise increases with heat, it doesn't seem to be enough for me to notice. I found finding out the temperature an interesting exercise, but absolutely would hate having a camera that required me to monitor it. I have trouble enough trying to keep straight and notice all of the things that are important to my shooting (aperture, SR, shutter speed, ISO, dynamic range, focal length, etc.) so I sure wouldn't want to be distracted by the sensor temperature.

07-13-2009, 07:28 AM	#14
awo425 Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: NYC, USA Posts: 481	Originally posted by lurchlarson I don't know that most photographers would benefit from knowing the sensor temp in camera. As far as shutter count, I think the Professional Canikons do report that. With the limited resources of Pentax, I don't know that implementing either of those functions was seen as "useful" to most photographers by the engineers. Therefore they didn't implement them in order to save money. That's just my best guess. These features cost nothing to implement. If information is already monitored and recorded IN EXIF displaying it in menu is something software specialist can do in 20 mins.

07-13-2009, 08:11 AM	#15
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by awo425 These features cost nothing to implement. If information is already monitored and recorded IN EXIF displaying it in menu is something software specialist can do in 20 mins. And then the engineers have to find a spot for it on the LCD screen and they have to add a menu option to turn the damned thing off, all of which is going to add to the cost, and this doesn't take into account that you pulled a number out of your nether orifice with nothing to back it up. All this to implement a feature of no practical use? Get real.