[Pentax_XTC]

When I bought my K10D I went to the local Ritz Camera to "Feel" the difference between the K10D and the K100D, before buying from B&H. The K100D felt small to my hands, so I went with the meatier K10.

So I ask this... How does the K7 compare in "feel" to the K100D? Also, has anyone bought the K7's battery grip and how does it change the feel of the camera?

I will be buying the K7 regardless very soon, but I know that these might be questions other members have as well.

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Last edited by Pentax_XTC; 07-16-2009 at 11:50 AM. Reason: typos... Big fingers, hence the questions...

[mtngal]

There is no such thing as a perfect camera, and there's no one-size-fits-all. The great thing is that you realized what it was you both liked and disliked about the camera and came to a conclusion that is both logical and appropriate for your situation. I very much appreciated your insights into why you made the decisions you did - I'm sure that they will be useful for others who are researching the camera. If for no other reason than to emphasize the importance of ergonomics and the fact that what fits one person might not fit the next person.

[dylansalt]

The K20D makes sense financially too - it now sells for less then when I bought my K10D.

Dylan

[brecklundin]

I think there is a reason that they are still selling the K20d - it is a different camera. I could see Pentax going "all compact" as the K7 and K2000 are similar form factors. That would mean the K20d just fades into the distance, but maybe they are going to keep a larger form factor for FF (ha!) or just be "compact" APS and the 645. Who knows. Right now I'll just happily keep shooting with the K20d, am pondering a 16-50* for general wide use, and see what happens. And I've thought of picking up a second backup K20d as I still think they give the best color and "look" of any comparable camera. Other than GAS (gear acquisition syndrome), there really isn't a "need" for me to upgrade at the moment. Though I am eyeing an E-P1 as a street cam...GAS is hard to kick

Heck, I just looked a few minutes ago and on Amazon the K20D new is around $600 (~$605 direct from Amazon)

Amazon.com: Pentax K20D 14.6MP Digital SLR Camera with Shake Reduction (Body Only): Camera & Photo

Worth considering if one adds the 3yr warranty thing. I got mine from Willoughbys, also on Amazon, for just $3.99...I was not sure if the free 3-yr extended warranty promo that was supposed to run until near the end of this month (June 2009) applies to camera's bought from all vendors.

[robgo2]

FWIW, I've had essentially nothing to say one way or the other about the K-7, but your comments make total sense to me. I think the K-7 looks great as a first Pentax, as an upgrade from any model other than the K20D, or for someone who wants "pro" features in a smaller body. But for K20D owners who *like* the form factor of that camera, there wouldn't seem to be a lot of reason to make the change, unless you've just got to have video, or find that X% increase in focus speed, frame rate, or whatever is worth $1000 to you. And that's fine - I don't think Pentax *should* be depending on most K20D owners upgrading to this camera in order for it to succeed (if that was their intent, they brought it out too soon and too similarly spec'ed).

I remember very similar sentiments being expressed when the K20D was introduced. Many K10D users, myself included, did not feel that the K20D represented a large enough jump in features and IQ to justify upgrading. Now, some K20D users are having the same thoughts about the K-7. On the other hand, the K-7 is a sizable step up for owners of all other Pentax DSLRs, and I believe that group have the greatest potential for upgrading. I will certainly give it serious consideration myself.

Rob

[schmik]

Going from the k100d to k7 is weird.... they both feel so similar in the hand. I often forget it's the k7 until i go to hit a button. The main difference is weight. The k7 feels heavier.

I guess that i am not that fussy on ergonomics. As long as it isn't overly uncomfortable then i will get used to it.... make the most of what you have!

[raymeedc]

I certainly hope this thread doesn't represent the majority of thought about the K7, or they're in for a sales failure with their new model, a failure they might scarcely be able to afford at this critical juncture in the company's future. If so, maybe gambling with a more radical design such as Full Frame might not have been such a bad idea in hindsight.
Anyway, I'll be looking to upgrade to a K7 at such a time, probably in a year or so, when the next "latest & greatest" model comes out & the K7 price drops to where the K20D is now. For me it will be a significant upgrade, as I currently shoot with a pair of *ist DS bodies (one for my Kmounts, the other a dedicated M42 body with a permanently mounted adapter). I've been waiting all these years for a camera to entice me to make the move but, although subsequent models offer more than mine in many ways, it hasn't been enough for me to pull the trigger. The K7 seems to offer enough of a performance boost over my current shooters, while retaining some of the important significant features I didn't want to give up by moving up to the K10D/20D line or 100/200 line (such as a small compact body, especially important to me, as I shoot exclusively with small prime manual lenses, & a pentaprism for manual focusing, a feature lacking in the later compact models) Because of my shooting style (manual focusing, & external metering with a separate handheld meter), most of the "advances & advantages" of the later models have had little significance for me (taking advantage of this situation, I picked up my second *ist DS body last year in mint condition for a mere $177). I'm one of those fools still hoping for that eventual Full Frame Pentax. Meanwhile, I'll make do with what's available, thankful Pentax is still hanging in there, & hopeful they don't shoot themselves in the foot with poor decisions.

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Last edited by raymeedc; 07-16-2009 at 04:28 PM.

[nostatic]

I remember very similar sentiments being expressed when the K20D was introduced. Many K10D users, myself included, did not feel that the K20D represented a large enough jump in features and IQ to justify upgrading. Now, some K20D users are having the same thoughts about the K-7. On the other hand, the K-7 is a sizable step up for owners of all other Pentax DSLRs, and I believe that group have the greatest potential for upgrading. I will certainly give it serious consideration myself.

Rob

I actually disagree about the K10d/K20d differences. I briefly had a K10d and was not impressed. I then pondered my options for a bit and was ready to get a D300 when the K20d came out. I checked it out (my local shop knows me well) and found that it was significantly better than the K10d (in my hands, the way I shoot). Both from performance and iq.

I think the K7 is a pretty good move for Pentax. It takes the best features of the K20d (eg iq, which is as good as anything else in class), adds new features, fixes some old niggles, and packs it into a more compact form factor that is far more rugged than the competition. It occupies a rather unique area.

For any current Pentax user, the K7 is an upgrade that is worth thinking about. The K20d is the only other model that has comparable iq, and the K7 improves in a number of other areas. Ergonomics are an individual thing, but thankfully Pentax actually gives you a choice:

Great performance, features, small form factor, tough/weather-proof? K7

Arguably a bit less performance in focus/metering, a few less features, larger form factor, great iq, tough/weather-proof? K20d

Good performance, tough/weatherproof? K200

Good performance, small form factor? K2000

They have identified their niche, and seem to be covering it well. And I just ordered a 16-50* lens today so evidently I'm not leaving the marquee any time soon...

[raymeedc]

nostatic, has anyone ever told you that you bear a striking resemblance to Harpo Marx?

[robgo2]

I actually disagree about the K10d/K20d differences. I briefly had a K10d and was not impressed. I then pondered my options for a bit and was ready to get a D300 when the K20d came out. I checked it out (my local shop knows me well) and found that it was significantly better than the K10d (in my hands, the way I shoot). Both from performance and iq.

The K10D and the K20D share the same body and controls. There is no doubt the the K20D is a better camera overall, but to some of us who owned and loved our K10Ds, it did not seem enough better to justify the expense.

In contrast, the K-7 is a completely new body with many new and improved features. IQ may not be much different from the K20D, but it is better than with any other camera in the Pentax lineup. For those who are obsessed with high ISO noise, it would seem that ISO 3200 in the K-7 is about equal to ISO 800 in the K10D, at least judging from examples that I have seen posted on the web. Thus, I think that there are plenty of reasons for many people to upgrade.

Rob

[raz]

Well, despite my initial (and to some extent continuing) enthusiasm for the K7, I finally packed it up and it'll go back tomorrow.

....


But in the end the new form factor just isn't comfortable for me to carry (again, I have a very particular style/approach so ymmv and take my opinion with a salt lick).

nostatic I think is your personal problem that you have big hands, you are used to bigger cameras and cannot accommodate to smaller cameras. Is not Pentax fault. Pentax always did make smaller cameras, no ? And they put a lot of effort to make one of the smallest DSLRs in it's class.

If you would be used to a K100D or K2000, would you say the same ? Did you return the *ist D as well when it appeared on the market just because it was too small ?

I think personal threads like this, made by respected users with many posts, aren't helping Pentax. Especially when the complain(the smaller size) was one of the big pluses that Pentax brought to the new camera.

[kenyee]

The K10D and the K20D share the same body and controls. There is no doubt the the K20D is a better camera overall, but to some of us who owned and loved our K10Ds, it did not seem enough better to justify the expense.

I didn't think it was worth the upgrade initially as a K10D owner, but after I upgraded I thought it was worth it. Yep, I'm weird

At the time, it was fairly well known that Pentax had the time to either improve the image quality (new sensor) or improve AF speed. In hindsight, it was the right decision because competitors released >10MP cameras not long afterwards but the K20D holds its own...

[nostatic]

nostatic I think is your personal problem that you have big hands, you are used to bigger cameras and cannot accommodate to smaller cameras. Is not Pentax fault. Pentax always did make smaller cameras, no ? And they put a lot of effort to make one of the smallest DSLRs in it's class.

If you would be used to a K100D or K2000, would you say the same ? Did you return the *ist D as well when it appeared on the market just because it was too small ?

I think personal threads like this, made by respected users with many posts, aren't helping Pentax. Especially when the complain(the smaller size) was one of the big pluses that Pentax brought to the new camera.

While I appreciate the "respected users" title, I don't think that this forum exists to "help Pentax." It is my belief that this place is for helping current and prospective Pentax owners gain information and insight into the gear and associated processes. As such, well-reasoned and reasonably-informed posts along with measured responses provide the most "help."

I never had a *istD so I can't comment on that (I was shooting Nikon back then). I did briefly use a K2000 but did not care for it due mostly to the small size. While Pentax certainly has a history of smaller bodies, the K10d and K20d are about an ideal size *to me*.

I didn't think that this thread (and hopefully you've read other posts in it and not just the initial one) had a whining tone at all. And I knew going in that the K7 might be problematic *for me* from a size perspective. But ergonomics is not trivial, and one does not know until they use it. I didn't throw a temper tantrum, chastise Pentax for a stupid decision, or anything like that. Again, please go read my posts in this thread.

And if you want to get technical, I did "help Pentax" today. I just bought another $700 Pentax lens. To them I speak with my wallet. If they stop making a larger body down the road, then I'll make a choice. For the immediate future, I have made my intentions clear - I'm happily shooting with my K20d and investing in more glass for it. And I'm also considering buying an Optio W80 for use in the water.

imho there are two types of threads that can be "hurtful." On one hand you have the incessant whining about a particular shortcoming that may or may not be addressed, along with "Canikon is better," "Pentax better fix it,"and threats to leave the marquee. On the other hand you have the über-biased fanboi posts that have no sense of balance or critical thinking. Neither extreme serves the brand or more importantly, the community.

[nostatic]

I didn't think it was worth the upgrade initially as a K10D owner, but after I upgraded I thought it was worth it. Yep, I'm weird

At the time, it was fairly well known that Pentax had the time to either improve the image quality (new sensor) or improve AF speed. In hindsight, it was the right decision because competitors released >10MP cameras not long afterwards but the K20D holds its own...

You're not weird at all. There is a totally different sensor in the K20d. While the form factor is the same as the K10d, the guts are very different. From a performance perspective (mostly iq), I think the jump from K10d to K20d is greater than K20d to K7. But from a feature and responsiveness perspective, the jump to K7 is huge. The value proposition is up to the user and what they want/need from the body.

[robgo2]

I didn't think it was worth the upgrade initially as a K10D owner, but after I upgraded I thought it was worth it. Yep, I'm weird

Which means that upgrading from a K10D to K-7 is an even greater improvement, which is why I usually wait at least two generations between upgrades. I can see why K20D owners may hesitate to buy a K-7, as long as they are satisfied with the K20D's features and performance. But for owners of every other Pentax DSLR, the K-7 is very tempting.

Rob