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07-18-2009, 05:36 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pentaxor Quote
this is getting pretty redundant and you don't even own a K-7. pretty ridiculous making that assessment honestly speaking. I'm just wondering why one would look ridiculous by shooting a K-7 during a pro-model photo shoot. or has brand anything to do with shooting a particular subject. may I ask why not Nikon? the obvious truth why Canon is ideal for pro-model photo shoot is because most photographers prefer shooting a Canon and not because it is a superior camera. nor does it tell that the K-7 is an inferior camera and not being able to do the job. call it prosumer, the camera is more than enough of a match or atleast at par with Canikon FF cameras (setting aside noise and FOV). so where do you put the APS-C 40D and D300s' being used in pro-model photo shoots? I'm sure that the K-7 is above water compared to those two. not to bad for a so-called prosumer dslr, eh?
Why not Nikon? ONLY because I was using the brands that were previously compared. Come on, you can't be serious!

Whether I own a K7 or not is irrelevant. I own a K20D, I enjoy most aspects of this camera and it even seems better than the K7, in some respects... and I paid the full new release price. However, I am realistic, I understand what my camera is and what it is not. If I had a choice, I wouldn't use it for a pro-shoot. Rather, I would use a pro-Canon or pro-Nikon! Do I really need to explain why????

Bottom line, I never said you couldn't! A pro or a beginner photographer can use any $$%@ piece of equipment he or she desires. No one should ever tell you otherwise, that is, unless you pay cheque depends on it.

Anyhow, this thread (or at least my part) is getting long in the tooth. This is as bad as trying to convince a Scientologist that Xenu is just fictional character written by a scifi writer.

07-18-2009, 05:55 PM   #47
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Hey GeneralBenson,

QuoteOriginally posted by GeneralBenson Quote
I should have mentioned that as well. The whole reason this started is because he was micro-adjusting all his lenses and still wasn't happy with the sharpness. We were looking at hte focus test charts (which were done correctly) and the target zone was the most in focus for sure, but still wasn't as sharp as you wouldn't expect. We were comparing straight out of the camera RAW files with no processing. And I'm not talking like, oh mine look kind of sharper. He was like, Holy crap, I've never seen 100% crops that sharp.
Can you post the pictures? I'm just curious how bad his combination was off, but it sounds like there was definitely a big difference.

His issue COULD be a bad copy of the lens, based on your description.

- slrl0ver
07-18-2009, 07:37 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Why not Nikon? ONLY because I was using the brands that were previously compared. Come on, you can't be serious!

Whether I own a K7 or not is irrelevant. I own a K20D, I enjoy most aspects of this camera and it even seems better than the K7, in some respects... and I paid the full new release price. However, I am realistic, I understand what my camera is and what it is not. If I had a choice, I wouldn't use it for a pro-shoot. Rather, I would use a pro-Canon or pro-Nikon! Do I really need to explain why????

Bottom line, I never said you couldn't! A pro or a beginner photographer can use any $$%@ piece of equipment he or she desires. No one should ever tell you otherwise, that is, unless you pay cheque depends on it.

Anyhow, this thread (or at least my part) is getting long in the tooth. This is as bad as trying to convince a Scientologist that Xenu is just fictional character written by a scifi writer.
not really. I already mentioned what's in a so-called pro and what there isn't. and it's a matter of your own personal preference. again, the prosumer terminology doesn't quite add up. realistically, a simple amateur photography or hobbyist owning a pro-Canon or pro-Nikon, doesn't that qualify an FF camera on prosumer level? does that mean that only a professional could use a pro equiptment? is the market only for the professionals? I would say realistically, it would market those who have the buck for it, whether the guy never used a camera before.

and btw, Captain Kirk says Hi !!!

Last edited by Pentaxor; 07-18-2009 at 08:50 PM.
07-18-2009, 07:47 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
The K7 is a prosumer camera and if you go to a pro model photo shoot, it would be pretty ridiculous to show up with a K7. You are better served by bringing the Canon (if you have to ask why, you have probably never worked as a professional).
From time to time I am called upon to shoot for my job (ie I get paid for it). I show up with whatever I show up with. I am hired for my eye and what I produce, not what logo is on my camera.

07-19-2009, 02:54 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
From time to time I am called upon to shoot for my job (ie I get paid for it). I show up with whatever I show up with. I am hired for my eye and what I produce, not what logo is on my camera.
Why does every thread come back to what brand you shoot. He was saying it'd be silly to turn up at a pro shoot with a prosumer camera, and you should really turn up with a FF/MF camera. He wasn't saying bring the Canon because of the logo.
07-19-2009, 11:14 AM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cosmo Quote
Why does every thread come back to what brand you shoot. He was saying it'd be silly to turn up at a pro shoot with a prosumer camera, and you should really turn up with a FF/MF camera. He wasn't saying bring the Canon because of the logo.
The problem with that statement is that there actually are a few pros using Pentax gear by choice (at least one of whom is a regular poster here). That makes it a demeaning comment.
07-19-2009, 11:27 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
The problem with that statement is that there actually are a few pros using Pentax gear by choice (at least one of whom is a regular poster here). That makes it a demeaning comment.
Of course, the few that exist use Pentax film or medium format. XD
Honestly, I don't see what the difference is if you show up at a shoot with a 1Ds mark iii or a K-7, it only matters what the images look like.
07-19-2009, 12:20 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by Cosmo Quote
Why does every thread come back to what brand you shoot. He was saying it'd be silly to turn up at a pro shoot with a prosumer camera, and you should really turn up with a FF/MF camera. He wasn't saying bring the Canon because of the logo.
He mentioned the brand, not me. And if you really want to get technical, for some "pro" shoots (where gear is an issue) if you show up with a FF Canon or Nikon instead of a Phase One or Hasselblad you'd be laughed at. Snobbery extends up and down the food chain.

My comment stands. A "pro" can show up for a "pro shoot" with whatever they want. "Pros" get hired for their images. Poseurs get hung up on the logo and the spec sheets. The whole "prosumer" thing is pure marketing speak and has nothing to do with the art of making pictures.

07-19-2009, 01:41 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by GLXLR Quote
Of course, the few that exist use Pentax film or medium format. XD
Honestly, I don't see what the difference is if you show up at a shoot with a 1Ds mark iii or a K-7, it only matters what the images look like.
true, it doesn't matter if you bring a 5D Mark II or Nikon D3 full frame "pro" equipment if your images are below or not better than the K-7 "prosumer" equipment. just think who would look ridiculous? the one with the K-7 with excellent images or the one with the Mark II with crappy pictures?

pentaxmz's point has nothing to do with his unsatisfaction with the K-7's capabilities, but has something to do more of his belief of the camera being a prosumer and his preference on an FF body.
07-19-2009, 02:04 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
A "pro" can show up for a "pro shoot" with whatever they want. "Pros" get hired for their images. Poseurs get hung up on the logo and the spec sheets. The whole "prosumer" thing is pure marketing speak and has nothing to do with the art of making pictures.
Well said. A truism widely known but not widely accepted, hence the effectiveness of marketing and Canikon's greater sales volume in the prosumer market.
07-19-2009, 02:48 PM   #56
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Seems like every time a thread like this pops up there's a group of people who either claim to have owned brand C or brand N gear, or have a good friend who does, and can attest to people being 'amazed', 'astounded' etc at the Pentax output. Then it turns out the friend/they have/had something alone a 50D or a 5D Mark II with all L glass, and they just couldn't get a sharp picture, and oh no, they are GOOD photographers, it's just that Canon's high end glass and nicer bodies aren't good enough blah blah... hogwash.

Unless the camera is BROKEN, it just isn't so. I've owned six Canon bodies and two Pentax bodies, and believe it or not, NONE of them were 'unsharp' unless I put a freakin' coke bottle in front of it. I have great 100% crops from a Canon 10D, a Samsung GX-S, a Pentax K20D, a Canon 50D etc. For all of these bodies with some half decent glass in front of them you will get excellent output if you are using them right.

It isn't that Pentax has some magical glass that just blows everything away -- the good Pentax glass is no worse or better than the good Nikon glass or the good Canon glass.

Where I DID see a difference was that whenever things were moving around quite a bit my K20D shots were sharp except not actually focused on the subject, while my brand C shots were sharp AND focused properly. And unless my technique magically improved overnight I do have to give some credit to the gear here.

Most Pentax owners are photographers who happen to own a Pentax. But there are some who are near-fanatical and heaven forbid reality should interfere with their ideas.

Believe it or not, not all "Canikon" owners are just people who haven't discovered the wonders of the K mount yet. Some are happy with what they have, and have their reasons for choosing the brand they're using.
07-19-2009, 02:52 PM   #57
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Its funny, that last week I was at the local camera store in town, and the K-7 is flying off the shelves. Now that may be because of pentaxians upgrading. But, the manager said a number of people are changing systems. One in fact has part ex'd their 50D for the K-7.

Looking good for Pentax methinks.......
07-19-2009, 03:03 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by GLXLR Quote
Of course, the few that exist use Pentax film or medium format. XD
Honestly, I don't see what the difference is if you show up at a shoot with a 1Ds mark iii or a K-7, it only matters what the images look like.

How very true. As I have said so many times before to a point that I sound like a robot, it is not the camera that makes the great image, but the person who is taking the picture. Someone can take an award winning image with say an *istDS, yet someone will take a poor shot with say an EOS 1D mk3.

The photographer ultimately is the image taker, not the the camera. The camera is the tool to record it, no more no less.
07-19-2009, 04:05 PM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote

It isn't that Pentax has some magical glass that just blows everything away -- the good Pentax glass is no worse or better than the good Nikon glass or the good Canon glass.
I agree with everything else you say (though my dad still can beat up your dad), but wish to expand this point a bit. A couple of things that end up being highly personal but often ignored: ergonomics, aesthetic, and intended use.

One difference between Pentax "good glass" (eg FA ltd prime or DA ltd prime) and Canikon is size, weight and construction. I have owned some very good Nikon glass before, with my favorite being the 105mm micro (pre-VR). But it was big and heavy. And I don't know that there is a 15mm ltd equivalent in Canikon. Or 43 ltd.

That isn't to say that the Canikon lenses are as good or even better. But they are different, have a different ergonomics, feel, and aesthetic. I hate plastic. No matter how good the lens is. Give me the look and feel of metal (and in a perfect world, without ridiculous weight).

One problem with many of these "is brand x better than brand y" is that they ignore what often are the most important questions - how will you use it, and what do you prefer form an ergonomics standpoint. I know that personally I have a set of ways that I tend to shoot, and a strong aesthetic and desire for how my gear should perform. And "perform" means something beyond just specs. I personally love the shots I see coming from the Sony a900 with Zeiss 24-70 zoom. Gorgeous. But there is no way in hell that setup would work with the way that I like to shoot photos. It is just too big and heavy.

Similarly I see people in the local park with a nice Canikon with big fat zoom that they are using for taking pictures of their kids. I'll bet money that I get as good a shot for their intended final output with my p&s. That doesn't mean they have the wrong camera. They might like holding a big camera and lens. And that's...ok. It is why we have a marketplace. So while I might not agree with their choice, there is no way I'd try to convince them to switch other than to offer a different way to look at what they're doing and let them drill down into what is important *to them*.

As I've said before here - for some photography is all about gadgets. The more mp, the higher the resolution, the sharper the lens...the better. And that's...OK. There is no right or wrong answer for being into photography. While I sometimes get caught up in those arguments I really try to avoid them but rather add a different perspective or usually humor to try and break up the monotony.

For me the feel of the 31ltd on the K20d body is without peer. Unless someone hands me an M8.2 with 35mm summicron. And I'm looking forward to putting a 15ltd on a k7. And my 43ltd on an E-P1. I have held the 5Kmk2 and hated it. I'm sure that it will take "better" pictures than my K20d. But if I don't like the handling, I won't use it. And if I won't use it, then I won't get the pictures and I'll have nothing to like or disdain.
07-19-2009, 04:43 PM   #60
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The Pentax cameras have always had great ergonomics, I can't disagree there. The 5D/5DII feel very awkward and clunky to use, though the XXD series are far nicer (control layout is virtually the same but the 5D cameras just feel a little "off"). Ergonomics on the 1-series (at least until the III changed things around) would probably be considered a complete nightmare by most. You have to push/spin multiple things at once to make anything happen. Canon had some reasoning for it (it's pretty much impossible to accidentally change something) but it takes some getting used to...

Canon definitely does not have anything like the Limiteds (I guess the closest competitor would be Olympus?), but they have their own things that some people like. I for one really enjoy a fast big 50 on my 1Ds2 -- it's like wielding a huge block of metal. (I think mine with 50 weighs in around 4.5 lbs) But I can definitely appreciate a K20D + 21 Limited which I at one time owned... wish the Limiteds were a little faster but then they wouldn't be quite as compact I suppose.
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