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07-21-2009, 05:39 AM   #61
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Just a data point in the discussion... some Canon users found that fps dropped significantly in Servo (AF-C) mode compared to One Shot (AF-S) occasionally. In that particular case it was due to the design of some older and/or cheaper lenses where the focus and diaphragm operation had to be carried out sequentially rathern than simultaneously. E.g. the "nifty fifty" 50/1.8 would slow a 40D/50D down to around 4fps in Servo mode because of this.

Personal experience: my 50D blasts away at 6+ fps seemingly forever (I think the buffer is 90 jpegs) while tracking birds in flight in Servo mode with the 400/5.6.

Not sure how much of a difference the lens makes on other brands.

07-21-2009, 05:48 AM   #62
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcjm78 Quote
Just bud in to share my experience using AFC multipoint shooting at my dog running towards me.

It lock focus faster and shooting faster.. but focus can be off.. as the camera might focus on the ground or the grass next to my dog.
I also feel that multi-point works better on the K-7. With the K20D I always used single-point because it seemed faster and more reliable, multi-points had a tendency to pick anything foreground or, much less wanted, background. On the German test quoted by Falconeye the K20D did much worse with auto multi-points.

On the K-7 the AF tends to prioritize the foreground (Ned Bunnell also said so in its marketing material). And multi-points seems faster because it has a greater area from which to pick the subject. I would be interested to see a real world comparison between the two methods.
07-21-2009, 06:24 AM   #63
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QuoteOriginally posted by ManuH Quote
On the German test quoted by Falconeye the K20D did much worse with auto multi-points. [...] I would be interested to see a real world comparison between the two methods.
Yes, it would be interesting. Yes, K20D was worse with multipoint (as was any other camera in this test, except Nikon D80). So, multipoint can be better, but normally isn't.

Also, I'm wondering how to discourage a camara from picking the foreground (if it has any contrast). Multipoint may be great for birds in the sky though
07-21-2009, 06:40 AM   #64
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
@Bunny Gear, why didn't you read what I posted?

The figure for D300 was 15 images in 3.6s (90% in focus). This is 4.2 fps or 70% of "advertized" 6 fps.

This is fact.
Try another test with moving objects in good condition.
D300 can make 6 fps with 100% in focus. It's FACT.
K-7 can't 5.2 fps.
My friend tried K-7 with DA*16-50 - NO ANY 3.9 FPS AT ALL.
Approx. 2.5 fps.

07-21-2009, 06:49 AM   #65
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FWIW, I remember reading somewhere that AF-C on the Nikon D300 was slowest when all 51 focus points were being used, faster when it was narrowed down to 11 (I think) points, and fastest when only the center point was used. Even though the D300 had the same focusing system as Nikon's top-of-the-line model, it didn't function quite as rapidly (or so the article said), and this was attributed to different processors. From what I've read on this and the DPR forum the same thing applies to the K-7. Time is lost when the camera has to decide which AF point to use to acquire focus. Have any of you Canon shooters noticed a similar slowing of the FPS when switching from center point to multi-point AF-C? Intuitively this would seem to be an unavoidable quality of all systems.

CN
07-21-2009, 07:07 AM   #66
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bunny Gear Quote
Try another test with moving objects in good condition.
D300 can make 6 fps with 100% in focus. It's FACT.
Why do you continue shouting "it's fact"? Do you belong to the people who think that repeating or shouting louder increases credibility? Do you behave like this with your friends, too? Or is it just on the internet?

The test I was referring to was carried out 6 times with the D300, using center AF point only, in good light with a high contrast subject. And a subject with defined distance, speed and FoV. It duplicates a real-work scenario requiring AF.C.

Another test cannot be tried because there is no other standard setup which was carried out (AFAIK).

But feel free to design your own test setup, and carry out an elaborate test with various bodies. Then come back and maybe, just maybe, you can then use the word "fact" in a way intended by the English language.
07-21-2009, 08:33 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bunny Gear Quote
Try another test with moving objects in good condition.
D300 can make 6 fps with 100% in focus. It's FACT.
K-7 can't 5.2 fps.
My friend tried K-7 with DA*16-50 - NO ANY 3.9 FPS AT ALL.
Approx. 2.5 fps.
If it's a fact,why don't you post links to where you got those facts. As far as I know, not a single camera has 100% accuracy in AF-C mode, not even the Canon 1Ds Mk III or Canon 1D MkIII, even though it cost something like five times the cost of a K-7. A lot of pro went from Canon to Nikon because of Canon AF. Nikon is bettere, but not perfect, as you seem to imply. If you can't substantiate your facts, you should keep yur assumptions to yourself.
07-21-2009, 09:17 AM   #68
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
What you have described is release priority, where the camera allows the photographer to release the shutter even if the camera's AF has not yet locked focus with the subject.
Shutter priority relates to the auto exposure mode where the photographer selects the shutter speed and the camera determines the corresponding aperture value according to the prevailing light level and metering profile.
They are two different things altogether, one relating to AF and the other, auto exposure mode.
oops my mistake, i meant shutter release priority that's what i get for typing 7am after 2 hours of sleep

07-21-2009, 09:29 AM   #69
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
NOSTATIC,
what is your experience with K-7 + AF-C?
Never tried it. I don't shoot that way, and fps means nothing to me.

My only point is that the title of this thread is misleading at best, trolling at worst, and the repeated whining of the OP adds nothing to the discussion here. At least I try to be even handed and it not that, funny. And if not that...I drink heavily.

Repeatedly saying something is is "FACT" without providing any supporting evidence deserves derision. And intimating that Pentax is somehow "lying" more about specs than the competition is trolling. They all gild the lilly and will report best-case numbers. And nowhere does it say 5fps for AF-C.

If the OP has just asked about AF-C and people reported their findings, it would be all good. But he/she didn't. They posted an inflammatory thread and continued to rant. And if you look at their other posts this seems to be the "troll'd mine" for them.

I still think it is a RH alter ego...
07-21-2009, 10:14 AM   #70
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Guess Nostatic is only K-7 owner on this forum who returned the K-7 for no reason?

So you got the K-7 just to chit chat about & then return for full refund?

Will this buy&try testdrive be the fate of your new oly e-p1 purchase too:

Buy, try, then chat about & return?

I thought with dslrs or digital cameras you could only rack up 200 images for 100% return. Did you keep K-7 under 200 images? I've never returned a piece of gear for working right. This is new to me. Tell Me More?

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Geez, schädenfreude much?

Too much caffeine or are you trying to derail yet another thread where you talk about your Canon gear?

Please try to keep up:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/66741-honeymoon-ov...g-divorce.html

I'll likely end up with another K7 by the end of the year as I rather miss it and have figured out how it'll fit into my needs/wants (ie it is not a K20d replacement). For now I'm messing around with this:

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/67144-middle-groun...mise-e-p1.html

Last edited by Samsungian; 07-21-2009 at 10:54 AM.
07-21-2009, 10:17 AM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
Inform us, please. Worse/better?
Hi ogl,

It's significantly faster in either of the single point focusing modes. I was playing at shooting BIF with a bunch of the local gulls handholding with the FA*300/4.5 for the last 2 days. I started off shooting multipoint and got surprisingly good results. I tried center point and noticed it allowed faster frame rate, but missed focus more because I couldn't hold accurately enough to keep a bird in the focusing area, so I switched back to multipoint. I'd imagine that a larger subject like a person or a car would allow for easier single point AF C tracking. . .

The AF C was a lot more accurate than I had expected. Out of 354 shots, only 33 were badly out of focus. The majority had very good focus, and the rest were at least useable.

Something else to be noted -- it's a lot easier to track a moving subject using Continuous High shutter mode with the K7 than with any of the previous bodies. I finally figured out that this was because of the shorter VF blackout times -- you actually see the subject in the VF for longer periods of time during a continuous string, and it's MUCH easier to track. My longest continuous string was for 19 shots -- all in focus, and strings of 5-10 were not uncommon. I must admit that my BIF technique is not good as I don't shoot them very often.

I also noticed that it was easier for me to acquire a bird in the VF -- for some reason the K7 points better for me, and I could even add the P F 1.7x AFA, acquire a high percentage of birds, and follow them more easily. I'd never been able to use the AFA with previous bodies for BIF. Theoretically, this combo should work well since the AFA acts as a focus limiter, but I'll have learn how to combine the manual focus aspect with the AF C to make this work better.

I've also tried my FA*300/2.8 tripod mounted on a Wimberley Sidekick. I thought that the faster lens with a more stable platform would give better results since this lens focuses pretty quickly and has a focus limiter. This turned out not to be the case, but again this might be because my technique needs some tuning. I think that the thinner DOF of the faster lens wide open is the difference between these two lenses, and I was surprised that the little guy easily seemed to outperform the big gun in this respect. I'm going to try my Sigma EX 300/2.8 APO and FA*300/4.5 with the Wimberley today. . .

BIF has never been a high priority for me, since I rarely get opportunities to shoot interesting birds with this technique, but the K7's performance certainly makes this easier.

Scott
07-21-2009, 10:26 AM   #72
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QuoteOriginally posted by Bunny Gear Quote
Try another test with moving objects in good condition.
D300 can make 6 fps with 100% in focus. It's FACT.
K-7 can't 5.2 fps.
My friend tried K-7 with DA*16-50 - NO ANY 3.9 FPS AT ALL.
Approx. 2.5 fps.
and this what you call as fact came from who? again, no sample sequence photos to even show what you consider as fact. not a single one coming from your 3rd party source and evidently neither yourself. and you expect us to believe you? guess what? I'm the Duke of China according to my friend's notebook. and that is a fact.
the inside joke just shows how ridiculous you are turning out to be.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 07-21-2009 at 10:41 AM.
07-21-2009, 10:34 AM   #73
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Why do you continue shouting "it's fact"? Do you belong to the people who think that repeating or shouting louder increases credibility? Do you behave like this with your friends, too? Or is it just on the internet?

The test I was referring to was carried out 6 times with the D300, using center AF point only, in good light with a high contrast subject. And a subject with defined distance, speed and FoV. It duplicates a real-work scenario requiring AF.C.

Another test cannot be tried because there is no other standard setup which was carried out (AFAIK).

But feel free to design your own test setup, and carry out an elaborate test with various bodies. Then come back and maybe, just maybe, you can then use the word "fact" in a way intended by the English language.
And the only reason why most of us believe falconeye rather than you is simply b/c falc has the tests to prove his claims. You, on the other hand, don't.
07-21-2009, 10:38 AM   #74
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
Why do you continue shouting "it's fact"? Do you belong to the people who think that repeating or shouting louder increases credibility? Do you behave like this with your friends, too? Or is it just on the internet?

The test I was referring to was carried out 6 times with the D300, using center AF point only, in good light with a high contrast subject. And a subject with defined distance, speed and FoV. It duplicates a real-work scenario requiring AF.C.

Another test cannot be tried because there is no other standard setup which was carried out (AFAIK).

But feel free to design your own test setup, and carry out an elaborate test with various bodies. Then come back and maybe, just maybe, you can then use the word "fact" in a way intended by the English language.
maybe it got something to do with China's militarism and English not being a first language. fact this, fact that. and this kept going on and on without any concrete basis. credibility isn't achieved by shouting fact over and over again without anything to show, but by showing real and concrete facts that affirm such statement. I dunno but English doesn't seem comprehensible for him. maybe we should start speaking chinese.
07-21-2009, 11:02 AM   #75
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QuoteOriginally posted by Samsungian Quote
So you got the K-7 just to chit chat about & then return for full refund?

Will this buy&try testdrive be the fate of your new oly e-p1 purchase too:

Buy, try, then chat about & return?

I thought with dslrs or digital cameras you could only rack up 200 images for 100% return. Did you keep K-7 under 200 images? I've never returned a piece of gear for working right. This is new to me. Tell Me More?
Wow, who pissed in your cornflakes?

And thanks for being my moral compass.

There is no local dealer with the K7. Hence if I want to try it, I have to buy it. Most retailers have a return policy which I followed to the letter, and in fact sent back less than a week after purchasing. Anyone would be hard pressed to tell the camera had been used. B&H has a 200 shot policy, Adorama (where I purchased) does not. In the end I did not like the ergos for what I was trying to do.

I'm glad you've never returned a piece of gear for "working right." I guess you're pretty special and a brilliant customer. And we all know that you buy as cheaply as possible and get the best deal on all your gear as opposed to us idiots that pay full pop.

But thanks for trying to take the piss out of me.
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