Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
05-08-2007, 04:15 PM   #1
Junior Member




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 35
"water resistent" means ... ?

Precisely WHAT conditions is the K10D/GX-10 water resistance "designed" to withstand?

I bought my GX-10 in reliance on this great statement from the Samsung web page.

> Impenetrable Build
>
> There's no need to worry about a bit of exposure to the elements - GX-10
> features a construction that is effectively resistant to damage by water, sand,
> or other potentially harmful materials. Gaps surrounding buttons are extremely
> tight and built to resist any unwanted intrusion, as are cracks formed where
> two pieces meet. To further ensure the camera's safety, all such gaps and
> cracks are lined with silicone for extra protection. These features are only the
> tip of the iceberg.

Has Pentax or Samsung, notwithstanding their advertising, ever spelled that out in detail? Where? URL, please? I've not seen it.

If I get my camera coated with salt spray while sailing or immersed by a passing splash, will it withstand the bath? Can I take a soaking wet cloth and clean the salt off? Can I rapidly "dip' it in a bowl of fresh water and wipe it off? I can do both with water resistant binoculars.

I thought the new DA lenses were also water resistant (whatever that means)? No?

05-08-2007, 05:06 PM   #2
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
QuoteOriginally posted by SRT-202 Quote
Precisely WHAT conditions is the K10D/GX-10 water resistance "designed" to withstand?
I have never seen this spelled out and I do not expect to. The lawyers will never let the marketing folks specify what risks you can take (photographing while in the shower; photographing while it's raining but not during a torrential downpour, etc.).

I have always assumed that the weather-sealing of the K10D means only that, if it should be exposed to moisture and/or other environmental challenges, it will be LESS LIKELY to be damaged than a camera that is NOT weather sealed. I think of the weather sealing as resembling a rain coat - helpful if you're just trying to keep from getting wet in a normal rain, but no guarantee that you won't be drowned in a flash flood.

So as a practical matter, I treat my K10D about as respectfully as I treat my laptop computer. I don't worry excessively about walking quickly to the car in a very light rain with the camera exposed - but even then I try to cover the camera if I can, and whenever the weather is threatening I have a sealed plastic bag with me always, just in case. When I was out in the Gulf of Mexico earlier this year by salt water, I didn't fret when a few drops of water sprayed up on the camera - but when the boat started moving faster, I quickly put the camera into the plastic bag and kept it there. I ended up soaked to the bone, but the camera was safe in the bag.

I would certainly not try immersing the camera in water. The camera is not marketed as an underwater camera. A very quick dip MIGHT not do any harm, but I personally am not willing to experiment in this way with my camera. If I feel the urge to clean it off, I use a soft cloth or paper towel that is moistened but not dripping wet.

Will
05-08-2007, 05:11 PM   #3
Administrator
Site Webmaster
Adam's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Arizona
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 40,993
What the K10D has is called "Weather Sealing," not exactly water resistance. The camera is designed to withstand moderately heavy rain and dust, but I definitely wouldn't recommend submerging it in a tub.

As for lenses, don't expect any current ones to be weather-sealed. The upcoming DA*'s will have special seals and coatings to protect them from rain, but I'd still avoid exposing them to it if possible. Basically, using lenses in the rain (or dust) is at your own risk. Most of the Pentax pieces are too precious, anyway

Here's a photo of what the camera is designed to go through: http://gallery.photo.net/photo/5321638-lg.jpg

Adam
PentaxForums.com Webmaster (Site Usage Guide | Site Help | My Photography)



PentaxForums.com's high server and development costs are user-supported. You can help cover those costs by donating. Or, buy your photo gear from our affiliates, Adorama, B&H Photo, or Topaz Labs, and get FREE Marketplace access - click here to see how! Trusted Pentax retailers:

05-08-2007, 05:16 PM   #4
Veteran Member




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Gteborg, Sweden
Posts: 810
Such an amount of common sense in one single post isn't common! Thinking of the original posters question I think it is exceptional!

05-08-2007, 05:37 PM   #5
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,053
Since you asked ;-)
Pentax k10d water resistant and SR test: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

Note that only the new DA* lenses have weathersealing, so you can't do this w/ any lens yet...
05-08-2007, 06:53 PM   #6
Junior Member
Phazed's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 32
I've been in heavy rain with my 10D, works great.
05-08-2007, 07:08 PM   #7
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
I was hoping this thread might come to a close without a link to that thread. ;-)

The guy put his camera under running water. It's his camera. Another poster here says that he's been in "heavy rain" with his K10D and had no problems.

I do find these reports reassuring. But I personally think it would be foolish to regard them recommendations. If you want to put your camera in the sink and run water on it, or if you want to use it in the pouring rain, well, it's your camera. But without a specific assurance from Pentax that they'll give me a new camera if it breaks after this sort of treatment, then I personally would not treat the camera that way. In other words, feel confident - but don't press your luck.

Will
05-08-2007, 07:24 PM   #8
Inactive Account




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 46
There was an article from early november in which it was stated that the K10D was spec'ed to be able to withstand the heavy rains of a typhoon. I think it can handle a faucet...

05-08-2007, 07:53 PM   #9
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 330
Colloquial and technical definitions.

1. Water resistant: able to withstand occasional, intermittent splash of liquids.
2. Water sealed: able to withstand complete submersion in liquid.

Water resistance is technically defined by Ingress Protection levels using two digits, i.e. 45, 67,etc. The first digit being type of penetrant (water, dust, etc.), second being condition it is present in (occasional splash, persistent downpour). All technical products are designed to withstand either mandatory IP rating (i.e. military equipment), or the designer/manufacturer chooses what is best balance of required / cost effective. But, if Pentax told you a camera has an IP rating of 54, everybody would be ?????. So they stick to simplistic marketing-speak colloquialisms.
05-08-2007, 08:12 PM   #10
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,299
QuoteOriginally posted by SRT-202 Quote
Precisely WHAT conditions is the K10D/GX-10 water resistance "designed" to withstand?
This is what came out of an interview of the Pentax development team:

QuoteQuote:
ASCII 24: Whats the degree of weather proofing?

Pentax Team: In an SLR, it is rather difficult to apply the JIS (Japan Industrial Standard) classification because lenses have to be changed. We set our own in-house standard for weather/dust proofing, anticipating actual environments users might encounter, and exceeded those standards.

In the case of an SLR, the body is made of so many parts and cannot avoid complicated seams. All seams had to be sealed, then the weather proofing of moving control parts has to be evaluated beginning from the selection of material. For waterproofing, because just one missing or loose sealing will allow water or dust entering into body, we had be extremely careful. It is ultimately a choice of either doing it or not doing it altogether, and there is no in-between. In order to obtain perfect weather/dust proofing, every detail had to be plugged, taking a lot of time and cost. However, we believe we plugged all seams.
OK1000 Pentax Blog: K10D Interview with development engineers of Pentax Japan
05-08-2007, 08:20 PM   #11
Veteran Member




Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,299
QuoteOriginally posted by option Quote
There was an article from early november in which it was stated that the K10D was spec'ed to be able to withstand the heavy rains of a typhoon. I think it can handle a faucet...
I can't find that article, but I thought it said anything less than torrential rain in a typhoon would be OK or something like that....

Anyways, running water from a faucet is way more powerful than torrential rain in a typhoon. By my estimate, in the small area right under the faucet which is, say, 3/4 open, you would get an equivalent rainfall of well over 12 inches PER MINUTE. This is way way more than any real life rainfall (where a few inches PER HOUR is already regarded as torrential downpour). And the speed of the water is also way higher than your usual rainfall (unless you are talking about Category 4 hurricane on rain + windspeed).
05-08-2007, 08:24 PM   #12
Loyal Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Bronx NY
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 5,599
QuoteOriginally posted by SRT-202 Quote
Precisely WHAT conditions is the K10D/GX-10 water resistance "designed" to withstand?

I bought my GX-10 in reliance on this great statement from the Samsung web page.

> Impenetrable Build
>
> There's no need to worry about a bit of exposure to the elements - GX-10
> features a construction that is effectively resistant to damage by water, sand,
> or other potentially harmful materials. Gaps surrounding buttons are extremely
> tight and built to resist any unwanted intrusion, as are cracks formed where
> two pieces meet. To further ensure the camera's safety, all such gaps and
> cracks are lined with silicone for extra protection. These features are only the
> tip of the iceberg.

Has Pentax or Samsung, notwithstanding their advertising, ever spelled that out in detail? Where? URL, please? I've not seen it.

If I get my camera coated with salt spray while sailing or immersed by a passing splash, will it withstand the bath? Can I take a soaking wet cloth and clean the salt off? Can I rapidly "dip' it in a bowl of fresh water and wipe it off? I can do both with water resistant binoculars.

I thought the new DA lenses were also water resistant (whatever that means)? No?
I talked to John C, USA product manager for Pentax last fall about specifically sailing with a K10D. He was understandably reluctant to make any definitive statements but he did say that the camera should withstand occasional spray and light to moderate rain, but if it was his personal camera he wouldn't want to "a wave in the face" I think is how he put it. IE, somewhere between what Will finds safe and the guy with the faucet. He did say that it wouldn't hurt the camera to wipe the salt off with a damp cloth.

NaCl(moderate to heavy spray OK, total immersion in a wave No )H2O
05-08-2007, 09:35 PM   #13
Junior Member




Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Midwest
Posts: 35
Original Poster
Interview with the Pentax man: Part II [Page 1]: Pentax SLR Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review

QuoteQuote:
The interview with Mr. Tatamiya consists of two parts. I already posted the first part the day before yesterday. Here’s the second part of the interview, which was just published today.
ITmedia +D LifeStyleF–i‚‚ƒyƒ“ƒ^ƒbƒNƒX‚ˆ—~\\uK10Dv‚ŠJ”*Ž‚•‚*iŒ•ҁj (1/3) (Japanese)

According to him,

As for weather resistant performance of body:
--the body has no problem even if it is used in heavy rain and typhoon.


As for weather resistant lenses:

--the lenses of their current lineup cannot be called “weather resistant.” However, since it is hard for water to get inside the current lenses, the users will not have to have great worry about it to some degree. Also, since DA lenses do not have aperture rings, the users will have the less worries about water.
Currently they are developing the three types of DA Star lenses as weather resistant lenses.
forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1036&thread=20700774

Last edited by SRT-202; 05-08-2007 at 09:53 PM.
05-08-2007, 10:30 PM   #14
Veteran Member
WMBP's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Dallas, Texas
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,496
QuoteOriginally posted by NaClH2O Quote
(John C, USA product manager for Pentax) ... did say that the camera should withstand occasional spray and light to moderate rain, but if it was his personal camera he wouldn't want to "a wave in the face" I think is how he put it. IE, somewhere between what Will finds safe and the guy with the faucet.
Just for the record, my replies were not intended to state what I consider "safe." They were intended to specify what I consider prudent.

I don't know myself what the camera can withstand, technically. I see that nosnoop and Donald have provided some interesting notes on the subject, but they don't tell us a lot, really. The bottom line for me is rather simple: Pentax doesn't market the camera as weather proof. It's certainly not an underwater camera. But they don't even market it as an all-weather, outdoors camera. They don't run ads with pictures of photographers standing in typhoons or torrential downpours. They don't market it with the image of a photographer lashed to the mast of a ship taking photos as the waves crash over them and the camera. They don't even say, if you like to take pictures during light rainfall, this is the camera for you! Compare the marketing of the Panasonic Toughbook. They do show ads with users spilling coffee right on the coffee, knocking their laptop off the desk, etc.

In short, Pentax doesn't guarantee that the K10D is going to survive any specific meteorological stress. I suspect that they don't in large part because bad-weather stresses are almost by definition idiosyncratic. What would a guarantee look like?

The K10D is weather sealed and has been found safe to use in these conditions: light to moderate rain falling at a rate of 0.2" per hour, with a barometric pressure no lower than 29 inches of mercury, wind gusts no higher than 35 mph, and temperatures between 40 F and 100 F. While exposed to the elements the camera must be held upright. You must use weather-sealed lenses (sold separately). The use of flash attachments in the rain is not recommended. The use of the K10D's battery grip is not recommended. Water on the lens may affect the camera's ability to focus properly, may affect exposure and may alter the result of the image captured in unpredictable ways. Do not open the battery bay or the SD card compartment while shooting in the rain.

You get the idea. It would be like the US tax code: the more they spell things out, the less clear it would be what you could really do and not do.

They could make a weather proof camera. But they have not done so.

By the way, note that the guy on the other forum who put his K10D in a sink and ran water on it actually removed the lens and taped up the lens mount very carefully before conducting his tests. Well, what the hell kind of a test is THAT? I mean, what that tells me is that it's probably pretty safe to take the camera out in a downpour - so long as I remove the lens and tape up the hole in front very, very carefully. THAT's useful info - not.

Anyway, I took the question seriously and tried to provide a reasonable, responsible answer. Anyone who wishes to take greater risks with his camera is of course free to do so. If you do shoot in heavy rain storms frequently, I would love to hear about it. As I said, it would be reassuring to hear that someone actually used in a typhoon "safely." It would be comforting to hear that someone had put his K10D in a washing machine for a full cycle (with soap) without ill effects. Such reports provide me with some peace of mind when I have to run to the car with my camera in a light rain. But I must confess that, as soon as I get into the car and shut the door, I am still going to pull out my handkerchief and wipe the camera dry.

Will
05-09-2007, 06:16 AM   #15
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Boston, PRofMA
Photos: Albums
Posts: 3,053
QuoteOriginally posted by WMBP Quote
I mean, what that tells me is that it's probably pretty safe to take the camera out in a downpour - so long as I remove the lens and tape up the hole in front very, very carefully. THAT's useful info - not.
What would you have him do? Go and steal one of the prototype DA* lenses do he can run the entire thing in the sink?

There are *zero* lenses you can purchase now that are weathersealed...the test the guy did proves Pentax was serious about sealing the body because it survived...it also gives us hope the weathersealed lenses will survive as well, but we'll have to hope the guy who did that test is willing to redo it after he gets a DA* lens unless you want to try it
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, cracks, dslr, features, gaps, gx-10, photography, salt, samsung, water
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Point & Shoot Contest #16 "Water You Looking At?" Mike Cash Pentax Compact Cameras 30 03-03-2009 05:07 PM
First attempt at "dreamy" water Jimfear Post Your Photos! 12 11-01-2008 11:40 AM
"Hunger for a DA*50-135?" or "The DA*50-135 as a bird lens!" or "Iron age birds?" Douglas_of_Sweden Post Your Photos! 4 08-13-2008 06:09 AM
What the SDHC "Class #" means... be aware! Marc Langille Pentax Camera and Field Accessories 26 02-16-2008 04:39 AM
My August Submission "Water" PaulAndAPentax Monthly Photo Contests 0 08-15-2007 04:29 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:40 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top