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08-11-2009, 09:07 PM   #61
wll
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As far as I'm concerned !

12-15 mp is more than enough for me ... I just want lower noise at high ISO, and better dynamic range.

What the He** am I going to do with a 20+ MP sensor, it is, for me a waste of space. I would MUCH rather have a smaller compact camera that is high tek.

To most of you, when was the last time you printed images larger than ~20" x 30" + ... for me, NEVER.


wll

08-11-2009, 10:50 PM   #62
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What is important to you going forward? More FPS? Better noise? Faster, more accurate Autofocus?

I am just going to write my thoughts, sorry, I always read other posts but don't have the time now, I will come back and read other posters thoughts as well. So I may say something already spoken about.

All of the above. I remember researching for my first digital camera about 10 years ago and how 2meg was a lot, and all you needed for good 8X10 prints. I was into computers and digital photography just goes hand and hand. For those like me who really did not get into dark rooms... I love Photoshop... and me and a million others saw how great a digital camera and a PC was together. My first digital the Kodak DC5000 is still in service, it can't touch my K20D but I have many pics from it, memories to keep for a lifetime and they are good quality pics. Then the race for people dollars was on and I watched on the side lines.

I saw mega-pixels increase every year, then came some prosumer cameras or those P/S cameras with 12X zooms, about a few years ago I decided it was time to get another camera and bought the Kodak Z612 a 6meg 12X IS zoom, WOW I was blown away by the pic quality, and the tack sharp hi-res pics I could take at 450mm. I just loved the pics, I for once in my life could take pics that when I was a kid would take big money cameras to do. It looked like professional quality pics, from this little P/S, I so much enjoyed taking pics and showing others, and really got into photography as an art a bit more than I did equipment. I would be perfectly happy and take great pics with my Kodak Z612 (well almost). I then read every review and everything I could about photography. My older brother has been into it for years and years and had a dark room. I had photography in school, so the seeds were planted and just sprouted with digital.

We have our great Pentax dSLRs because of the mega-pixel race and people buying P/S cameras by the millions. Then some review sites noted the decrease in IQ with increasing mega-pixels in P/S cameras so the manufactures pushed the high ISO race; and we just fell into it. By race I mean the manufactures used this feature as a major selling point. What makes IQ in a digital camera, resolution and noise are the two major factors? P/S hit the wall with these a couple years ago so now they have 28X zooms to get your dollars, Yep performance is what its about now so I guess now with APS hitting the wall (All current APS dSLRs are really about the same in noise and resolution, or very close) we get into the performance race with manufactures fighting over FPS, AF speed, video (yes how I love that ) do you see things heading that way already? Of course now we are going to have incredibly fast and accurate dSLRS, with great video, we will soon put mega-pixels and noise into the background and focus on features and performance other than IQ. We will subconsciously fall into this new selling trap, and want to upgrade every-year so you can shoot with 8fps instead of 5fps, and talk about how great it is, and how others should upgrade to . No? Ask Canon, Nikon, Pentax, Sony, Olympus when they are going to the bank how they got us to buy new dSLRs all the time, if we really needed them or just wanted them with no real reason and or need to upgrade.
08-12-2009, 02:54 AM   #63
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Interesting thought. But unfortunately sometimes it comes out the opposite way. It is instead of developing better cameras they are slowing current developments and implementing them in very biased and trimmed way, to allow for a longer upgrade path.

The same can be referred to camera design in general. Film cameras were much more modular so you could upgrade/replace various parts without changing the whole camera. Theoretically with digital cameras technology one could make more extensive customization, but instead it is much less.
08-12-2009, 04:23 AM   #64
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what I would really like is for someone to make a DSLR with a monochrome sensor like kodak used to. with current technologies a sensor like that would be able to do without the AA filter, and it would be able to maintain very high image quality even at High ISO values due to there not being any RGB array to rob the photosites of light. I also seem to recall that the kodak DSLR's were extremely good at near infra-red imaging too, so make that no AA filter and a user interchangeable hot mirror... and cram it all into a body like the Pentax ME super and I would be very happy.

08-12-2009, 04:30 AM   #65
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QuoteOriginally posted by Digitalis Quote
what I would really like is for someone to make a DSLR with a monochrome sensor like kodak used to. with current technologies a sensor like that would be able to do without the AA filter, and it would be able to maintain very high image quality even at High ISO values due to there not being any RGB array to rob the photosites of light. I also seem to recall that the kodak DSLR's were extremely good at near infra-red imaging too, so make that no AA filter and a user interchangeable hot mirror... and cram it all into a body like the Pentax ME super and I would be very happy.
How about using tech similar to the Fuji sensor with separate low sensitivity "highlight" photosites to create an increased dynamic range on top of that?
08-12-2009, 06:36 AM   #66
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I think if you dont have to process colour you can incorporate better mechanisms to increase DR without special photo sites.
Btw, can CMOS sensors be read out without resetting it?
Like you address each photo site at 1/1000[s], do ADC but let the sensor to continue accumulating light for say 1/50 exposure without discharging photo sites (just take as much charge as ADC needs, without "grounding" afterwards).
If you could read it out fast enough you could deal without some double shutter.

With B&W sensor you could still do static object (like landscape) imaging in colour in a similar manner astrophotography is done - with a filter wheel.
And you'd retain full sensor resolution, like foveon does.


Still the AA filter would be needed. Read what is Aliasing and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem .
Basically you can go without but you get artefacts that theoretically cannot be removed.
Practically you can filter afterwards them so they don't look harsh, but the original image has been lost.

Last edited by ytterbium; 08-12-2009 at 06:50 AM.
08-12-2009, 09:10 AM   #67
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
How about using tech similar to the Fuji sensor with separate low sensitivity "highlight" photosites to create an increased dynamic range on top of that?
YES YES YES PLEASEEEEE. Only thing that sacrifices is ISO performance, but lovely images in the end....
08-12-2009, 09:26 AM   #68
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It is possible to make replaceable antialiasing filters.
May be future will have also front filters with crystals changing color filtering properties due electricity. :-)

I am also amazed why we don't see DSLR without large LCD screen. I mean completely. Instead such DSLT must have simple shift mechanism that shifts focusing screen right after metering is done and replaces it with small high-res LCD. Looks more natural to me.

08-12-2009, 09:52 AM   #69
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Maybe shifting all the wires and stuff with precise alignment could be too hard. Imagine how many lines you need for HD lcd.
but instead you could make another shutter in front of the focusing screen (between the screen and raised/lowered mirror) to black out mirror box and use a little enhanced existing focusing point overlay technique.

This would allow for much more complex overlays (such as panorama stitching guides at the edges of frame) to be displayed aswell and reduce the need for chimping.

Free back of the camera wold allow for better button placement and ergonomics.
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08-12-2009, 10:26 AM   #70
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It is very hard to do.
I propose simple shifting. Imagine simple plate that can be shifted back and forth.
And no, LCD don't require that many wires as simple small controller is usually near LCD matrix. LCD can be even wires free using spring loaded connections that snap in correct places as soon as it is shifted, kind like in battery grip.
08-12-2009, 06:19 PM   #71
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
How about using tech similar to the Fuji sensor with separate low sensitivity "highlight" photosites to create an increased dynamic range on top of that?
the only problem that I see in that technology is that it is often nosier at high Iso settings because the smaller photosites are being underexposed and the cameras are mixing in all that noise in with the image made by the larger photosites and making one big 12MP mess. - no, just a 16MP full frame monochrome sensor please, and in a camera body like the ME super. Preferably with a quiet shutter...That would probably make a heap of Leica photographers ditch their dodgy M8 cameras in droves.

Last edited by Digitalis; 08-31-2010 at 05:22 PM.
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