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07-27-2009, 06:10 AM   #16
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Can't see any advantage of dedicated ISO button. You hold it in while twirling a dial to change ISO. K20D- you hold in OK button while twirling a wheel to change ISO. Only diff is placement of button and its labeled ISO.

Realize the K-7 is a better built camera. On paper it should be my dream camera. Just a higher speced body all around. Of course on paper thats exactly what C&N are. Then you pick one up and euhhh!.

Can get used to the controls of the K-7. Had to get used to the controls of K10D after moving from *ist DS. But both cameras were comfortable to hold, and the twin dial K10D controls were better. Have approx 30 different cameras. Changing controls isn't a problem. Do believe a "pro" platform should keep the controls consistent from model to model when possible. One of the things I hate about my Olympus dslrs. Every model is like a new group designed it. Maybe it was a new group. Didn't the designer of the k10/20D leave Pentax when Hoya took over?

thanks
barondla

07-27-2009, 06:18 AM   #17
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Whether or not the K10/K20 is the best camera layout ever created, Pentax needed to have a new body for the K7. The reality is that there were many fewer K20s sold because of the fact that it looks exactly like the K10. I have both cameras and they are very different, but it is hard to convince a photographer that one camera is different from another when they look exactly the same.
07-27-2009, 06:54 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Can't see any advantage of dedicated ISO button. You hold it in while twirling a dial to change ISO. K20D- you hold in OK button while twirling a wheel to change ISO. Only diff is placement of button and its labeled ISO.
As I have read the ISO change (new button) is no longer a gawd awful two button process. The button is sticky with a time out if the dial is not being turned. Meaning it's now a one finger operation. And I seem to recall I also read in the same user review here on PF the EC button is also sticky with a similar inactivity timeout.

I only have access to the pre-release version of the K7 manual and see no PDF K7 manual so I can't find out for sure.

But the two button system for adjusting ISO on the K20D is about the worst (read flat out poorly designed) setup I could imagine. Nothing on a DSLR should require a two finger operation, or more accurately in remembering the thumb is not actually a finger, finger and thumb combination to operate the function... Still, though, for me the WORST button on a DSLR is a not re-mappable "print" button as found on so many so-called higher end DSLRs... I suppose it's there for "green box" shooters...more power to them if they are getting the shots they want, but it would be nice if camera's with such a button made it re-mappable.
07-27-2009, 07:14 AM   #19
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My hands are not very big and I've love the K-7 grip. Much better to hold than the K20D. I've had the K100ds, K10D/K20D and now the K-7, and by far I like the K-7 handling most. The new four way control is nice, I like how just about every setting can be changed by pressing the info button, I don't mind the LCD screen placement or the new place for the playback and trash button, the new mode dial is good and even the AE-L and green buttons are now much easier to use than it is in the K20D. On top of that I also got more speed, more civilized sensor cleaning and shutter sounds, smaller size and less weight. I can't think of anything to complain about really.

07-27-2009, 07:17 AM   #20
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Ok, I searched the non-final copy of the K7 manual I have and found the details of how the ISO button works and I was essentially correct. As you can read, the button is sticky. But it there does not seem to be a time-out, though I really seem to recall there is a time-out for inactivity. But even it not, for me this is a far better way to perform the change. But that is for ME not others. Here is the page:

07-27-2009, 07:20 AM   #21
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This talk of ISO selection requiring a thumb and a finger (well,two digits) to operate on the K20d needs mentioning. I operate in AV mostly and have the rear dial to change aperture and front dial chages ISO. The shutter speed looks after itself. Both these operations only need one finger. (nothing personal )
07-27-2009, 07:26 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Daveinozbikes Quote
This talk of ISO selection requiring a thumb and a finger (well,two digits) to operate on the K20d needs mentioning. I operate in AV mostly and have the rear dial to change aperture and front dial chages ISO. The shutter speed looks after itself. Both these operations only need one finger. (nothing personal )
I know about that mode, but I shoot manual and use none of the program shooting modes. But yup, that is one way to improve the issue but requires I give up control over other settings. I might not always want to do that...

The whole K20D ISO change issue is not as bad for a some people as it is for me...I no longer have the flexibility in my hands to easily perform the operation and have to pretty much move my hand so only my fingers are holding the body, that means I move my eye and lose any composition I setup. But I would say the awkwardness of the K20D method in manual was a problem for enough folks that the change in design was made for the K7.
07-27-2009, 08:04 AM   #23
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I'm very happy with the size direction pentax is taking with the K-7 -- while there are smallish DSLRs, it seems like they're always plasticky and flimsy feeling. All the more solidly built models seem to tend in the mega-bloat direction (I know, they're trying to cram lots of stuff in, so it's not an easy task to make them smaller!).

07-27-2009, 02:15 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
They could have saved an enormous amount of design time and money, coming out with a K30D... with improved AF, noise reduction, elimination of mandatory DFS, faster flash sync, a batter grip that accepts AA batteries, better live view... and well many of the other cool features present in the K7.
Hello.
You sound like model name line-ups like in K30D&K-7 mean physically/philosophically different line of cameras in photographic sense.
Isn't K-7 mean actually K30D? Or is there a supposedly difference between those lineups I am not aware of?
07-27-2009, 02:23 PM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
Hello.
You sound like model name line-ups like in K30D&K-7 mean physically/philosophically different line of cameras in photographic sense.
Isn't K-7 mean actually K30D? Or is there a supposedly difference between those lineups I am not aware of?
The K30d is the mythical follow-up to the K20d. Time will tell if it actually will ever exist or if the K10d/K20d form factor is dead. I'd give odds that there will be no "K30d", but there will be a K8 (or whatever) in 18 months as well as a weather-proof Km before that.
07-27-2009, 02:35 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
The K30d is the mythical follow-up to the K20d. Time will tell if it actually will ever exist or if the K10d/K20d form factor is dead. I'd give odds that there will be no "K30d", but there will be a K8 (or whatever) in 18 months as well as a weather-proof Km before that.
If you mean the form factors of K7 and K20 are different, that sounds strange to me, since heart of the both cameras, sensors are the same, sizes are almost the same, one button is here, one options is there. So, K7 and K20 don't look like different lineup models to me like Canon EOS 3-1 1Ds Mark -I-II Versus 40D- 50D are. Oh yeah, most probably it was just me, isn't it?
07-27-2009, 02:40 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
If you mean the form factors of K7 and K20 are different, that sounds strange to me, since heart of the both cameras, sensors are the same, sizes are almost the same, one button is here, one options is there. So, K7 and K20 don't look like different lineup models to me like Canon EOS 3-1 1Ds Mark -I-II Versus 40D- 50D are. Oh yeah, most probably it was just me, isn't it?
Have you held both? They are different philosophies and form factors. While the K20d is a relatively compact dSLR, the K7 is another step smaller.

At some point it comes down to semantics, but in my hands they are two different cameras. The K10d and K20d however are identical.
07-27-2009, 07:01 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Seriously Rob, was your retort really necessary? Seems rather rude to me.

The OP was simply expressing the reasons/opinions why the camera may not be suitable. All valid reasons to the OP and the OP is absolutely entitled to their opinions. You may not agree this time and that's fine... maybe we will here you out when you have your own issues some day.

Why do you seem so annoyed? Are you one of the design engineers for the K7?
I was not at all annoyed by the OP's post. I believe that he is very ambivalent about the K-7 and wants us to push him in one direction or the other. But in his heart, he already knows which direction that is and just wants the forum to reinforce his true feelings. I'm just trying to nudge him into figuring it out for himself. He doesn't need us to make up his mind.

Rob
07-27-2009, 07:04 PM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I was not at all annoyed by the OP's post. I believe that he is very ambivalent about the K-7 and wants us to push him in one direction or the other. But in his heart, he already knows which direction that is and just wants the forum to reinforce his true feelings. I'm just trying to nudge him into figuring it out for himself. He doesn't need us to make up his mind.

Rob

of course he does. we are all family here.
07-27-2009, 09:35 PM   #30
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QuoteQuote:
Originally Posted by Robgo2
So, are you hoping that people will talk you out of getting the K-7 or into it? You have expressed a number of reservations about the camera, so I would suggest that you defer your purchase and let someone else who really wants the K-7 have it in your place. Rob
QuoteQuote:
Originally Posted by pentaxmz
Seriously Rob, was your retort really necessary? Seems rather rude to me.

The OP was simply expressing the reasons/opinions why the camera may not be suitable. All valid reasons to the OP and the OP is absolutely entitled to their opinions. You may not agree this time and that's fine... maybe we will here you out when you have your own issues some day.

Why do you seem so annoyed? Are you one of the design engineers for the K7?
QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
I was not at all annoyed by the OP's post. I believe that he is very ambivalent about the K-7 and wants us to push him in one direction or the other. But in his heart, he already knows which direction that is and just wants the forum to reinforce his true feelings. I'm just trying to nudge him into figuring it out for himself. He doesn't need us to make up his mind.
Rob
Rob's initial comment was perfectly appropriate - it didn't seem rude to me at all. One could take pentaxmz's zinger toward Rob as a rude and unnecessary retort if that is the test for rudeness. No, pentaxmz, I have no affiliation with Pentax, either. The OP expressed "his true feelings" on his post. With those true feelings expressed, Rob was simply suggesting that it seemed pretty obvious the K-7 was not an appropriate camera for him and he would be happier with one that didn't have so many negatives from his perspective. Of course, none of these digitals have negatives anyway.

Last edited by gfmucci; 07-27-2009 at 09:43 PM.
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