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07-26-2009, 07:36 PM   #1
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Having second thoughts on K-7.

Have one on order. Recently played with a few. Kind of turned off. Not sure if I want one or not. Here are the reasons.

Don't like the fact that the size of the camera and controls have changed. Don't get me wrong, I like small cameras (small hands). Shoot LX, Olympus OM1-4, Leica M2-4. Don't want the camera any bigger than it needs to be - to work efficiently.

A number of the controls on the K-7 seem to be worse than the K10/20D. Don't like the menu driven antishake (can't glance at the camera to see if its on or off). Also slow to change. Don't like the memo card removal. Pain in the arse. Don't like where the delete and play buttons are. We even lost the delete nipple. Now must be more careful. We have fewer buttons. Not sure this is a great idea on a "pro" offering.

The K10/20D are interchangeable. Same controls, batteries, grips, and chargers. If I keep K20D and K-7 none of this interchanges. Bummer. May just toss new K-7 batt and use the grip with Eneloops.

The people I see worry about camera size, seem to be more concerned about weight than size. We didn't lose much weight going from K20D to K-7. Was it worth all the above? Not so sure. The camera is the most uncomfortable to hold of any Pentax DSLR! Hoped the grip would fix it. It does feel better with grip but still not as comfortable as K10/20D. This was always a Pentax specialty. Was hoping this camera would feel like original D with grip.

A grumble I have with pentax over the years is their yo-yoing camera size. This always requires a new winder(film), or grip. Wish they would pick two size dslr bodies (beginner & not) and stick with them. Pentax is great on lens compatibility but poor on winders/grips. Olympus Om series stayed with same winder/motor drive size for 25 years! All Leica M cameras were the same size (except the much unadored M5). We are at 3" screen now. What happens when C&N raise the lcd size on the next releases? We will follow. We can't do this forever with our little camera body. The K-7 will get bigger in its next redesign.

There are things I love about the new camera. Love the quieter shutter, faster FPS, controls for both liveview and optical depth of field preview, ability to use AA batts in grip, less prism over hang, and the beautiful 100% viewfinder.

So the K-7 is a better built camera that doesn't take much higher quality photos ( maybe better at high iso). It has gained the speed of C&N. Hmmm. I don't care about 5 fps, are even fast AF (shoot mostly MF). Doesn't leave me with much improvement over what I have. A camera I should drool over just leaves me wondering - is this a Pentax?
thanks
barondla

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07-26-2009, 08:15 PM   #2
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Given your concerns and priorities, I believe you should cancel your order. Sounds like you're pretty well content with what you have.
07-26-2009, 08:22 PM   #3
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So, are you hoping that people will talk you out of getting the K-7 or into it? You have expressed a number of reservations about the camera, so I would suggest that you defer your purchase and let someone else who really wants the K-7 have it in your place.

Rob
07-26-2009, 08:54 PM   #4
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Everything is a compromise and there is no perfect anything. I think ergos are incredibly important - if I don't like the way it feels and looks, I won't use it. While you have to factor in getting used to something different, if it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you.

As for is it a Pentax - of course it is. Small, tough, weathersealed. It is clearly the niche they are trying to carve out.

07-26-2009, 09:16 PM   #5
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I could help you out in making your decision.

first, point out the most important thing for you in a dslr.

second, point out the next most important thing for you in a dslr.

third, point out the next most important thing for you in a dslr.

now, if you got 2 out of 3 of those most important things, then I think that you would need the camera.


as for me, the first 2 important things that I was looking for in a dslr before were the shutter speed and fps speed, they turned out to be the less important things for what I was looking for. then it became apparent that the metering, focusing, low-light performance and WB turned out the "must have or more important" for me in a dslr. the weather-sealing, body construction, and image tweaking/customizing add-ons like filters, corrections, and HDR are just an added bonus which would appeal some people.

Last edited by Pentaxor; 07-26-2009 at 09:36 PM.
07-26-2009, 09:21 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by robgo2 Quote
So, are you hoping that people will talk you out of getting the K-7 or into it? You have expressed a number of reservations about the camera, so I would suggest that you defer your purchase and let someone else who really wants the K-7 have it in your place.

Rob
Seriously Rob, was your retort really necessary? Seems rather rude to me.

The OP was simply expressing the reasons/opinions why the camera may not be suitable. All valid reasons to the OP and the OP is absolutely entitled to their opinions. You may not agree this time and that's fine... maybe we will here you out when you have your own issues some day.

Why do you seem so annoyed? Are you one of the design engineers for the K7?
07-26-2009, 09:38 PM   #7
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Cake, pie, and beer for everyone!

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Everything is a compromise and there is no perfect anything. I think ergos are incredibly important - if I don't like the way it feels and looks, I won't use it. While you have to factor in getting used to something different, if it doesn't work for you, then it doesn't work for you.

As for is it a Pentax - of course it is. Small, tough, weathersealed. It is clearly the niche they are trying to carve out.
Oh... darn... here we go again with that magic word "compromise", the ultimate excuse word for making 'mistakes'. Remember, 'mistakes' is meant in a relative way.

I happen to mostly agree with the OP. I do wonder whom Pentax had in mind when they developed this camera. Taking away push buttons certainly indicates that they did not have the semi-pro in mind. Yet, they still included a digital level... isn't that of more interest to a semi-pro to a pro? And they are other contradictions in things ignored or added to this camera. Making it battery/accessory incompatible with the K20D is also a big no-no with semi-pros or pros. Yes, technologies do change.... BUT if you look carefully, the K20D and the K7 use the same darn battery technology. Only the form factor changed slightly enough to make them incompatible. Stupid decision in my opinion.

Also, in regards to the memory card situation. Did Pentax submit a prototype for real world user testing? I've heard a lot of complaints about this problem.

Didn't Pentax realize that they had a near-perfect camera in the K20D?

They could have saved an enormous amount of design time and money, coming out with a K30D... with improved AF, noise reduction, elimination of mandatory DFS, faster flash sync, a batter grip that accepts AA batteries, better live view... and well many of the other cool features present in the K7.

Am I right or am I right?

If they did release a K30D as I described.... I am willing to bet it would become a blockbuster camera for Pentax! HECK, I would pay for the parade myself! And I would buy everyone cake, pie, and beer! Oh, what a fun day we would have! .....And I promise, you would never, every hear another peep from me about Canon or Nikon! :-)

Am I right or am I right?

SNAP! Okay, I am now awake from my day dream! Damn, it didn't really happen, did it?
07-26-2009, 10:10 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxmz Quote
Oh... darn... here we go again with that magic word "compromise", the ultimate excuse word for making 'mistakes'. Remember, 'mistakes' is meant in a relative way.

I happen to mostly agree with the OP. I do wonder whom Pentax had in mind when they developed this camera. Taking away push buttons certainly indicates that they did not have the semi-pro in mind.
Have you used the K7?

"Taking away push buttons..." - which ones? The removed the SR switch (I plus in my book) and added a dedicated ISO button (another plus in almost everyone's book). I personally agree with the OP on not liking the revised placement but it isn't a "mistake" - some people seem to prefer it. It is a design choice.

"Compromise" is not an ultimate excuse for "mistake." EVERYTHING has compromises. It is up to the individual user to determine thumbs up or thumbs down. One person's "mistake" is another person's "feature."

I agree with much of what the OP said, and in fact echo'd many of those points in one of my previous threads. But there are reasons for all of the design changes. Some of them are related to performance, others are related to financial implication and planned obsolescence.

Plenty of people prefer the form factor of the K7 to the K20d, so evidently the K20d isn't "near-perfect" to everyone. They could have made *your* perfect K30d and many would likely have complained. You can't please everyone. Even "pros" and "semi-pros" (whatever that means).

07-26-2009, 10:16 PM   #9
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The K-7 takes about 30% more still photos on a full charge compared to the K20D.
It may be due to lower power consumption in the body (I doubt it, to that extent) or higher battery capacity. It would not be right to say the K-7 is just using the same battery technology in a different packing.

The K20D is a very good camera with excellent IQ, which I didn't buy because of what was not good enough. I was looking for better AWB, without the yellow cast indoors (I use plain JPEG 80% of the time), faster AF, especially in low-light, more accurate exposure , more consistent flash exposure etc.

I needed a camera which was at least as good as the K20D in picture quality, with better performance in a whole lot of other areas.....and here comes the K-7......
07-26-2009, 10:59 PM   #10
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Sorry but this is typical of a lot of so called complaints from new K-7 users regarding the ergonomics. The fact is after having gotten used to the K10D/K20D control layout, it is natural to initially feel all thumbs with the K-7. This is pretty normal for any new camera, not just the K-7. The thing is one needs to spend time to familiarize and get used to the new control layout, button placement, and functions. Humans are an adaptable species and if one is prepared to spend some time to adjust, using the camera will be second nature the more time one spends with it.
07-26-2009, 11:18 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Sorry but this is typical of a lot of so called complaints from new K-7 users regarding the ergonomics. The fact is after having gotten used to the K10D/K20D control layout, it is natural to initially feel all thumbs with the K-7. This is pretty normal for any new camera, not just the K-7. The thing is one needs to spend time to familiarize and get used to the new control layout, button placement, and functions. Humans are an adaptable species and if one is prepared to spend some time to adjust, using the camera will be second nature the more time one spends with it.
I agree partially. Of course there is something to be said for familiarity and resistance to change. However there are other aspects to the ergos that are beyond the buttons. The screen is now left-justified and you've lost the nice "trench" on the left for handling. Also the height is less and bigger hands are forced into 2 finger or trying to cram the third. In addition, with the 50-135 I found that my left hand was running into my right when spinning the zoom and/or focus. This is due to the tighter spacing between lens and grip.

For many these are not deal-breakers, and some will prefer it. But there are issues beyond just muscle memory. The bottom line is that people can get used to just about anything - but the question then becomes whether they need to.
07-26-2009, 11:23 PM   #12
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A compromise is a mistake if you are an accountant.

In design, compromise is part of all good design. Make the right compromises, and you win. Make the wrong mix of compromises, and your design fails.

With a consumer product, like the K-7, Pentax will know is the mix was right if the camera sells well and meets their sales targets. Individual opinions matter little. The only thing that matters is the final sales numbers.
07-27-2009, 12:24 AM   #13
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Didn't Pentax realize that they had a near-perfect camera in the K20D?
QuoteQuote:
They could have saved an enormous amount of design time and money, coming out with a K30D... with improved AF, noise reduction, elimination of mandatory DFS, faster flash sync, a batter grip that accepts AA batteries, better live view... and well many of the other cool features present in the K7.

Am I right or am I right
I think you may be right....
07-27-2009, 04:23 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by creampuff Quote
Sorry but this is typical of a lot of so called complaints from new K-7 users regarding the ergonomics. The fact is after having gotten used to the K10D/K20D control layout, it is natural to initially feel all thumbs with the K-7. This is pretty normal for any new camera, not just the K-7.
Absolutely.

When I went from the *ist DS to the K20D I was frustrated at the sensitivity of the shutter button amongst other things, but I quickly got used to it and found the *ist DS ergonomics not as good!

It'll take time to adjust to the K7's buttons, but hoorah for the dedicated ISO button, I can live with SR being in the menu since I have it switched on all the time unless i'm taking a long exposure, tripod mount landscape shot - I have all the time in the world to turn it off when landscaping, so I wouldn't miss the dedicated switch.
07-27-2009, 05:36 AM   #15
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for the OP:

I just migrated form a Canon 40D...and let me tell you, at first I HATED the button layout of the K20D, and still have extreme dislike for the location of several buttons or info in the view finder/top LCD.

But I also came to remember I was not too fond of the 40D at first either...now after a few thousand shots and getting to know the layout by instinct, I am OK with the K20D layout. Not ideal, but as the camera gives me what I want results wise, I can live with it while I wait for the K7.

In fairness I will tell you just from looking at the K7 redesign, it makes a LOT more sense to me. Especially the re-location of the EC, ISO, AE-L and Green Button to what, in my mind, are far more practical positions based on how often I need access to those functions.

I have the advantage in that the Best Buy closest to my town has the K7 in stock so I am going to visit next time I have to go there (it's a 50mi round trip and these days i drive as little as possible, too old and creaky i suppose... )

But, I bet if you are willing to suspend disbelief and give the new layout an honest shot, you'll find it pretty nice...or not...it might be best to wait until you can actually handle one for a while in a store somewhere. Also, what is the return policy where you are buying? If it is not 100% then pass until you can try it...and think of it this way, the longer you wait, the cheaper it will get and the more likely the first firmware update will be released. And then there is the sensor issue that has yet to have a solution released or even cause explained. But Pentax has released comments that they are aware some of the bodies are affected and are trying to effect a solution.
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