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07-29-2009, 02:07 PM   #46
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OK, back on message guys (what is it about RH that brings out the worst in people). Has anyone else noticed how good the "New Indoor" images from the K-7 look compared to all other cameras? I think these images were added very recently.

07-29-2009, 02:08 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mindflux Quote
Well if I'm an ignorant Texan he can be a cheese eating surrender monkey.
i never called you an ignorant texan though, did i?
07-29-2009, 02:10 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
i never called you an ignorant texan though, did i?

It's suggested, via 'ignorant jackass'. Which is apparently what people think Texans are.

07-29-2009, 02:10 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
OK, back on message guys (what is it about RH that brings out the worst in people). Has anyone else noticed how good the "New Indoor" images from the K-7 look compared to all other cameras? I think these images were added very recently.
this thread is epic phail boat from the get go, and there are enough K7 posts floating around... so really, i would just lock this one, but i dont have mod powers so..

07-29-2009, 02:11 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mindflux Quote
It's suggested, via 'ignorant jackass'. Which is apparently what people think Texans are.

no way man, that would be totally rude and inconsiderate!
07-29-2009, 02:35 PM   #51
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Dear fellow pentaxians,

Photography is one of the most fun things in the world, with Pentax gear it is lot more fun, life is too short to hurt friends hearts.

Now everybody involved in calling names apologizes, considering we are a community for a very adorable hobby. This won't hurt anyone.

I love you Pentaxians. (BTW I am straight)
07-29-2009, 02:40 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
Dear fellow pentaxians,

Photography is one of the most fun things in the world, with Pentax gear it is lot more fun, life is too short to hurt friends hearts.

Now everybody involved in calling names apologizes, considering we are a community for a very adorable hobby. This won't hurt anyone.

I love you Pentaxians. (BTW I am straight)
Have you looked at the pictures yet? I think they invalidate the whole point of your original post.

I agree with gooshin that this thread is an epic fail from beginning to end.
07-29-2009, 02:53 PM   #53
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
Have you looked at the pictures yet? I think they invalidate the whole point of your original post.
.
Back to the subject I've already DL'ed K20, K7 and Canon 500D pictures, pictures are in front in me now the worst is K7, 500D is vastly superior the Pentax' but what I don't understand is.

K20 pic is 9800 KB
K7 pic is 10.000 KB when
500D pic is only 5800 KB in size thats weird.

They are all downloaded from 100 ASA still pictures, I am checking the scale and the big brush first, than salt shaker and black cloth and wool for DR 500D blows'em out.

Am I looking wrong pictures? I've all downloaded from comparator, I have same pictures from separate pages too. I didn't check the Canon 50D yet, because 500D is 15MP camera similar to K7.

I gave the comparator link in the original posting for who didn't check the pictures yet.

07-29-2009, 02:59 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
ignorant texan
That would be redundant

(ducking for cover)
07-29-2009, 03:03 PM   #55
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I find all this fascinating.

In my very own experience I have actually run into all of the issues RH has mentioned.
The fact that his English is a little funny should not be misinterpreted as being hostile.

I still have 2 K100d bodies (one D and one D Super) and really, really, REALLY like them both a lot!

I grew up with K bayonet from when I was 15, and I am now 45!

BUT I HAD a K10d that failed catastrophically.
Disassembly showed me how poor the mechanical design of the antishake switch was. It broke off with a typical stress crack. It happened just sticking the cam into a soft camera bag, and the switch was designed and built without a proper mechanical position lock but was held in place by friction only - explaining the stress crack due to the very tight screw holding the pivot in place!
I know plastic, as I have worked many projects from fine model scale to automotive applications and plumbing over the years, and this was about as poor a design as I can imagine.

I also verified the injection molding problems Pentax had for a while on my own K10d, which started cracking around the base where the battery grip contacts the body. The K10d is now literally in the garbage!

I also had an istDL, which was nice, but awfully slow on the autofocus (the K100d runs circles around it and was a MAJOR upgrade, also in IQ).

I now have a K20d, and being probably the final production batch, it does not exhibit the banding issues that many users found on their K20d models and that I personally also had on my K10d that I ended up being thoroughly disgusted with. (the one that had bad plastic was the second K10d after a dead on arrival delivery where the metering exposed dark frames instead of proper images - another fault of the K10d I read about in other forums).

I am also getting used to a particular quirk of the K20d - severe underexposure that is quite obviously dependent on the color balance of the scene, as indoor shots (red shift in the light source!) are atrociously underexposed at about 1EV, but outdoor shots in bright light (i.e. blue shifted source) often benefit from underexposing by about 1/2 EV.
Proper exposure should be a no-brainer, as light meters have been around in one form or another for maybe 70 years or so, maybe even longer.
Those Hollywood cats somehow got all these film rolls exposed correctly, and Hollywood certainly never watsed money on bad camera men ruining literally miles of very expensive 35mm or even "cheap" 16mm film

Why they cannot get metering right.
Nikon is exemplary here!
Just to make another point, I am not bashing and singling out Pentax, as Canon is also bad with its metering!
The T1 and a few others I tried, like the 30d, XTi, and other "Rebel" bodies tend to over expose and really blow entire skies, not just highlights, but Canon is BIG and lives on strong consumer beliefs...
Plus I don't care for Canon glass, because the good stuff is way over priced, and the el-cheapos are lousy in across the frame sharpness and CAs.

Why Pentax still cannot get their metering right is beyond me, but blaming the photographer for underexposure as was done in a post above is NOT the solution.
The photographer should be able to read the meter and rely on it, instead of best guess compensating when the moment counts and cannot be repeated and then hoping for the best!

I am now keeping the K20d for slow deliberate work where I would want more resolution and still use the K100d and K100dS as my main bodies.
The only reason I am keeping the K20d, is because that was my last purchase as a final backup body to protect my investment in glass!

Talking glass - there is something funky about the chips in the Pentax lenses - the bodies tend to really underexpose with Pentax glass!
I use Tamron and Sigma (with which the K100 bodies expose properly!) and very rarely the Pentax glass, except the OLD Pentax F50 f/1.7, which exposes properly - but that is also not a "digital" lens, but an old full frame lens!

As far as I am concerned, the K100d and DS may be the ONLY really decent dSLRs that Pentax has made so far.

They expose properly (but ONLY in matrix mode), have great colors, and have as good a resolution and noise behavior as you can get from a 6MP model. My K100 bodies even beat the real life resolution of a few 10MP cams out there

Wanna see pics?
I do not claim to be a high grade art photographer, but I am happy with the shots I posted at lapratho's Photo Galleries at pbase.com

Point being - I like my WORKING Pentax gear and would really like the brand to survive and thrive, and then get into something with a really snappy autofocus and even better low light performance than my K100d and K100dS.

BUT everything since has been a major disappointment - and RH has so far been 100% correct, whether you like it or not.

Oh - and the recently returned K2000 had a major autofocus issue. It tried to focus about 85 % of the way to the target, so had a major front focus error!
Back it went too!

So what is this about him getting booted here and his links getting deleted?

Let people look and read and make up their own mind - what are you afraid of?
Let the links stand!

Pentax needs to start paying attention to their quality control problems and make decent cameras that don't turn into boomerangs for Pentax!

I CERTAINLY do NOT want to lose my money on all those nice lenses now, should Pentax die! I want them to live and do well with good gear - just like RH!

later
Owen
07-29-2009, 03:08 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by cbaytan Quote
Back to the subject I've already DL'ed K20, K7 and Canon 500D pictures, pictures are in front in me now the worst is K7, 500D is vastly superior the Pentax' but what I don't understand is.

K20 pic is 9800 KB
K7 pic is 10.000 KB when
500D pic is only 5800 KB in size thats weird.

They are all downloaded from 100 ASA still pictures, I am checking the scale and the big brush first, than salt shaker and black cloth and wool for DR 500D blows'em out.

Am I looking wrong pictures? I've all downloaded from comparator, I have same pictures from separate pages too. I didn't check the Canon 50D yet, because 500D is 15MP camera similar to K7.

I gave the comparator link in the original posting for who didn't check the pictures yet.
We must not be looking at the same link. Are you looking at the "New Indoor" shots? The manequin in the green jacket sitting at the table.
Imaging Resource "Comparometer" Digital Camera Image Comparison Page
07-29-2009, 03:22 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by lapratho Quote
I find all this fascinating.

In my very own experience I have actually run into all of the issues RH has mentioned.
The fact that his English is a little funny should not be misinterpreted as being hostile.

I still have 2 K100d bodies (one D and one D Super) and really, really, REALLY like them both a lot!

I grew up with K bayonet from when I was 15, and I am now 45!

BUT I HAD a K10d that failed catastrophically.
Disassembly showed me how poor the mechanical design of the antishake switch was. It broke off with a typical stress crack. It happened just sticking the cam into a soft camera bag, and the switch was designed and built without a proper mechanical position lock but was held in place by friction only - explaining the stress crack due to the very tight screw holding the pivot in place!
I know plastic, as I have worked many projects from fine model scale to automotive applications and plumbing over the years, and this was about as poor a design as I can imagine.

I also verified the injection molding problems Pentax had for a while on my own K10d, which started cracking around the base where the battery grip contacts the body. The K10d is now literally in the garbage!

I also had an istDL, which was nice, but awfully slow on the autofocus (the K100d runs circles around it and was a MAJOR upgrade, also in IQ).

I now have a K20d, and being probably the final production batch, it does not exhibit the banding issues that many users found on their K20d models and that I personally also had on my K10d that I ended up being thoroughly disgusted with. (the one that had bad plastic was the second K10d after a dead on arrival delivery where the metering exposed dark frames instead of proper images - another fault of the K10d I read about in other forums).

I am also getting used to a particular quirk of the K20d - severe underexposure that is quite obviously dependent on the color balance of the scene, as indoor shots (red shift in the light source!) are atrociously underexposed at about 1EV, but outdoor shots in bright light (i.e. blue shifted source) often benefit from underexposing by about 1/2 EV.
Proper exposure should be a no-brainer, as light meters have been around in one form or another for maybe 70 years or so, maybe even longer.
Those Hollywood cats somehow got all these film rolls exposed correctly, and Hollywood certainly never watsed money on bad camera men ruining literally miles of very expensive 35mm or even "cheap" 16mm film

Why they cannot get metering right.
Nikon is exemplary here!
Just to make another point, I am not bashing and singling out Pentax, as Canon is also bad with its metering!
The T1 and a few others I tried, like the 30d, XTi, and other "Rebel" bodies tend to over expose and really blow entire skies, not just highlights, but Canon is BIG and lives on strong consumer beliefs...
Plus I don't care for Canon glass, because the good stuff is way over priced, and the el-cheapos are lousy in across the frame sharpness and CAs.

Why Pentax still cannot get their metering right is beyond me, but blaming the photographer for underexposure as was done in a post above is NOT the solution.
The photographer should be able to read the meter and rely on it, instead of best guess compensating when the moment counts and cannot be repeated and then hoping for the best!

I am now keeping the K20d for slow deliberate work where I would want more resolution and still use the K100d and K100dS as my main bodies.
The only reason I am keeping the K20d, is because that was my last purchase as a final backup body to protect my investment in glass!

Talking glass - there is something funky about the chips in the Pentax lenses - the bodies tend to really underexpose with Pentax glass!
I use Tamron and Sigma (with which the K100 bodies expose properly!) and very rarely the Pentax glass, except the OLD Pentax F50 f/1.7, which exposes properly - but that is also not a "digital" lens, but an old full frame lens!

As far as I am concerned, the K100d and DS may be the ONLY really decent dSLRs that Pentax has made so far.

They expose properly (but ONLY in matrix mode), have great colors, and have as good a resolution and noise behavior as you can get from a 6MP model. My K100 bodies even beat the real life resolution of a few 10MP cams out there

Wanna see pics?
I do not claim to be a high grade art photographer, but I am happy with the shots I posted at lapratho's Photo Galleries at pbase.com

Point being - I like my WORKING Pentax gear and would really like the brand to survive and thrive, and then get into something with a really snappy autofocus and even better low light performance than my K100d and K100dS.

BUT everything since has been a major disappointment - and RH has so far been 100% correct, whether you like it or not.

Oh - and the recently returned K2000 had a major autofocus issue. It tried to focus about 85 % of the way to the target, so had a major front focus error!
Back it went too!

So what is this about him getting booted here and his links getting deleted?

Let people look and read and make up their own mind - what are you afraid of?
Let the links stand!

Pentax needs to start paying attention to their quality control problems and make decent cameras that don't turn into boomerangs for Pentax!

I CERTAINLY do NOT want to lose my money on all those nice lenses now, should Pentax die! I want them to live and do well with good gear - just like RH!

later
Owen
Oh boy. Big post to reply to.

As far as I'm concerned, both the K10 and K20 were a huge step up from the previous bodies, although they too did get the job done. I used the K10 until the K20 came out, and the K20 until the K-7. Never had any problem with exposure or metering. Yes, some shots looked better with a -0.5 ev compensation, but that's a decision that the photographer, and not the camera, has to make. On top of that, the colors that came out of the K20 rarely needed more than a small levels adjustment in photoshop in order to look great. Have a look at my personal photo site to see what I've been able to produce with those cameras- Mosphotos.com- Mo's Photo Galleries

So is Pentax gear bad? The answer is no. Hell no. Is Pentax less popular than it should be? Yes. Why? Because their Marketing department makes the wrong decisions all the time. Go back to the 80s and have a look at the Super Program. Wonderful camera, right? Next thing you know, Pentax goes through the effort of releasing the ProgramPlus, which instead of being better, actually had certain features (Tv and TTL flash) removed. They're still doing the same thing today, to an extent. Instead of keeping up with the competition where it really matters (resolution, framerate, full-frame bodies, readily-available pro lenses), they come up with silly stuff that they think will cut it. LiveView, for instance. It's a fun feature, but not something that should be the justification for a new camera body.

There are two things that really make Pentax unconditionally better than the competition, for people to whom this applies (which, sadly isn't that many).

1. Backwards-compatibility (great for having a collection of lenses and camera bodies!)
2. Superb glass (believe it or not, some of the older lenses that you can't buy anymore are better than anything Pentax has coughed up lately)

Adam
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07-29-2009, 03:31 PM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by Adam Quote
There are two things that really make Pentax unconditionally better than the competition, for people to whom this applies (which, sadly isn't that many).

1. Backwards-compatibility (great for having a collection of lenses and camera bodies!)
2. Superb glass (believe it or not, some of the older lenses that you can't buy anymore are better than anything Pentax has coughed up lately)
3. Weather resistance at a reasonable price point.

Pentax is far from perfect but has some niches well carved.

I always find it funny that it seems that some who rail about exposure problems and AF issues are also the ones that claim to have a substantial "investment" in (older) Pentax glass.

So then either they couldn't take a decent picture with film cameras and are now still bitter, or maybe they are collectors and not photographers and just like to complain. Gawd knows I love a good complaint:

M: I want to complain.
C: You want to complain! Look at these shoes. I've only had them three weeks and the heels are worn right through.
M: No, I want to complain about...
C: If you complain nothing happens, you might as well not bother.
M: Oh!
C: Oh my back hurts, it's not a very fine day and I'm sick and tired of this office.
07-29-2009, 03:41 PM   #59
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would anyone find it amusing that i just got back from the local hardware store with a 2 foot long 2x4? it only cost me $0.58 with taxes....
07-29-2009, 03:45 PM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by Gooshin Quote
would anyone find it amusing that i just got back from the local hardware store with a 2 foot long 2x4? it only cost me $0.58 with taxes....
Only if you take a picture of it with a Pentax then complain that you aren't seeing enough grain resolution and correlate that with random jpgs subjected to scrutinous pixelpeepery. Or cut the 2x4 and build a brick wall with it. Though then it would be a wood wall.

Or would it?!? Wood it?!?
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