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07-30-2009, 07:27 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Don't be so sure. The dSLR market is not expanding
It is expanding. They sell more and more DSLRs. Pentax share however gets less and less.

07-30-2009, 07:31 PM   #17
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Purchase price for D700 at B&H today is not ""2999.99" :

List price is list price. Who would pay list price today for a D300 or a D700? Why pay list today, & not shop around?

Lets use for example B&H today:


Nikon D300 SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) more info

MFR #25432 • B&H #NID300 Free Shipping

Our Price:
$1,599.95
Sub Total:
$1,599.95


Nikon D700 SLR Digital Camera (Camera Body) more info

MFR #25444 • B&H #NID700 Free Shipping

Our Price:
$2,349.95
Sub Total:
$2,349.95

and as you know K-7 is still $1,299 unless you do a bing.com search and get discount of about $103 back in 60 days. Then again you could use bing.com to discount the prices of D300s, D300 & D700 too.

Lets see, 8% off a D300s at $1799 is $144 off, so its $1655,
....8% off $1599 D300 is -123= $1476
& 8% off $2349 D700 is -188=$2161

versus K-7 is $1299-104=$1195

I'd say the main benefit to buying any of the three above nikon bodies is to be able use any nikon made lens since 1977.

Kinda like why I own a pentax dslr, to be able to use Pentax lenses I already owned.

Same reason I own D700, to use Nikon lenses I own.

Same reason I own 5D, to use Canon lenses I own.
07-30-2009, 08:04 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
It may be better as well.
I hope you're not referring to the flash system. That is one area where Nikon is so far ahead of the pack it isn't funny.
07-30-2009, 08:19 PM   #19
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I am not buying it nostatic

QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Don't be so sure. The dSLR market is not expanding so if Pentax, Olympus and to some extent Sony want to increase their sales, it comes at the expense of Canon and Nikon. I will bet that Nikon closely watches all the players as they have the most to lose from a corporate standpoint. Nikon has become almost totally dependent on cameras while Canon, Hoya, Sony and Olympus are more diversified.

imho Nikon can't afford to lose market share to Canon or the niche players.
How is Pentax gonna increase it's market share when nobody can hold the damn K-7 anywhere.

Do you honestly believe many with an entry level Canon or Nikon are going to dump their cameras with better Hi ISO and better flash systems to buy a camera they cant even get their hands on? Based on what? On marketing hype and the first adoptor fanboys glowing reports alone?

And few newbies will ever know this camera exists because it is not in the stores.. So where is the big threat to the stagnant market share?

07-30-2009, 08:38 PM   #20
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I think the D300s will mainly target sports shooters, those who value FPS and autotracking. For the non-sports shooter, Nikon already has the excellent D90. Or for a few $ more, there is the FF D700.

At any rate, K-7 will not be a major threat to D300s sales.
07-30-2009, 08:43 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
How is Pentax gonna increase it's market share when nobody can hold the damn K-7 anywhere.

Do you honestly believe many with an entry level Canon or Nikon are going to dump their cameras with better Hi ISO and better flash systems to buy a camera they cant even get their hands on? Based on what? On marketing hype and the first adoptor fanboys glowing reports alone?

And few newbies will ever know this camera exists because it is not in the stores.. So where is the big threat to the stagnant market share?
Whoa there, maybe cut down on the coffee

I didn't say that the K-7 is sniping Nikon sales. I said they (Nikon) are watching what Pentax does. They are certainly watching Olympus and the E-P1. There certainly is an issue with lack of shelf space especially for those who are over 30. But we're also in an era where fewer people actually buy much of anything at B&M stores. Pentax is making a gamble with their "strategy" and time will tell if it pays off.
07-30-2009, 08:47 PM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by RaduA Quote
"Built upon the widely acclaimed D300, the D300S incorporates the same DX-format 12.3 megapixel CMOS sensor, professional 51-point autofocus system and commended EXPEED image processing in a discrete compact body".
hahhahahahahahaahahahahahahaha, a far as APS bodies go, this thing is a monster; about as discreet as a kick to the teeth...

anyway, sounds like a great camera. not quite the upgrade i thought Nikon would come out with, given that the D300 is 2 years old now... But if you're shooting sports outdoors, it's probably the best camera you can buy short of a D3/1DMkIII. D700 isn't 'fully' sealed (battery and card doors don't have gaskets) and D300s gives you significantly faster fps (bat pack excluded) and the crop factor.

That said, I still lust after a K-7. The only thing I'd really like to see is the dual card slots.
07-30-2009, 09:08 PM   #23
Igilligan
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Whoa there, maybe cut down on the coffee

I didn't say that the K-7 is sniping Nikon sales. I said they (Nikon) are watching what Pentax does. They are certainly watching Olympus and the E-P1. There certainly is an issue with lack of shelf space especially for those who are over 30. But we're also in an era where fewer people actually buy much of anything at B&M stores. Pentax is making a gamble with their "strategy" and time will tell if it pays off.

haha... It was painkillers and diet coke, but you were right on the money, I was on a tip!~

Sometimes when I come here from the other forum, I bring my shithead persona with me.
They make me this way.
I come over here and the first thread I read, I go all DPRambo.

I feel foolish and somewhat sad... Oops, the painkillers are reacting with the caffeine!

Psst... they have already lost the gamble. It was not a good move.

07-30-2009, 09:22 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
haha... It was painkillers and diet coke, but you were right on the money, I was on a tip!~

Sometimes when I come here from the other forum, I bring my shithead persona with me.
They make me this way.
I come over here and the first thread I read, I go all DPRambo.

I feel foolish and somewhat sad... Oops, the painkillers are reacting with the caffeine!

Psst... they have already lost the gamble. It was not a good move.
Diet coke? Aspartame will kill you - stick with the pain meds.

It will be interesting to see if the K7 is the start of a resurgence, a repeat of the status quo like the K20d, or the last gasp of a past player. We don't have any idea about profitability or if they have a vision. I personally think that niche players can survive (they do in computers, cars, and other areas) *if* they can differentiate. The K7 is a stab at that - small, tough, weatherproof, etc. In some ways it is a far better move than making the "K30d". The K7 is different than the D300 and 50D. It is easy to differentiate between them.

Markets are funny. Everyone took Apple to task for years saying they needed to lower their prices and increase their performance. Instead they had a vision and stuck to it. They still are more expensive than "equivalent" hardware but one can argue that the design is more elegant and fits certain niches better. Perceived value is a powerful concept. imho Pentax cannot go head to head with Canikon at the entry level - the lack of margins will kill them. Likewise they can't go head to head on "performance." They also can't compete on shelf space (Hoya evidently doesn't want to spend the $$$). So they've put a flag in the sand with the K7 and they'll see how it goes.

Interesting pieces at bythom.com (2009 Nikon News and Comments by Thom Hogan)

Look at the posts from 21Jul and 24Jul - "Something's got to give." The low end would kill Pentax. And I think they know that.
07-30-2009, 09:34 PM   #25
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From the bythom.com 24Jul post:

"With any popular product we get a long cycle that drives it towards commodity--commoditization happens to all popular products. There are two types of winners when that happens: (1) the two or three companies that establish the economies of scale and branding to win the category; and (2) the companies that take the opportunity to splinter off and create new, highly profitable niches."

Can Pentax be in group 1? I highly doubt it. Can they be in group 2? If they play their hand correctly, yes. If they fumble, they are in group 3 (see ya!).
07-30-2009, 09:47 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote

Look at the posts from 21Jul and 24Jul - "Something's got to give." The low end would kill Pentax. And I think they know that.
Thanks for the link. The theories in those posts could also be looked at another way. Pentax slipped under the radar by not being mentioned and so may have less pressure to duke it out amongst the others. Much would depend on whether Pentax continues to slip under the radar of the consumer. I really hope that this K-7 Roadshow that has been announced in a hurry doesn't turn out to be a wet blanket. The first leg was last night, about thirty people turned up, good for PF, a few members got to meet each other, not so good for Pentax though I fear.

The other potential advantage for Pentax could be the modular suggestion. Pentax have the knowledge and their work on the digital MF camera would stand them in good stead.
I guess a lot would depend on whether Hoya would give them the investment.
07-30-2009, 09:50 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Damn Brit Quote
Thanks for the link. The theories in those posts could also be looked at another way. Pentax slipped under the radar by not being mentioned and so may have less pressure to duke it out amongst the others. Much would depend on whether Pentax continues to slip under the radar of the consumer. I really hope that this K-7 Roadshow that has been announced in a hurry doesn't turn out to be a wet blanket. The first leg was last night, about thirty people turned up, good for PF, a few members got to meet each other, not so good for Pentax though I fear.

The other potential advantage for Pentax could be the modular suggestion. Pentax have the knowledge and their work on the digital MF camera would stand them in good stead.
I guess a lot would depend on whether Hoya would give them the investment.
Pentax needs placement in publications/sites like Outdoors, REI, etc. If they are going to play the niche card then they need to target the customers. If you get a community buzzing about it (say hikers, climbers, etc) then they can move product. Hell, if they were smart they'd partner with Subaru and give away a camera with every car.
07-30-2009, 10:01 PM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Pentax needs placement in publications/sites like Outdoors, REI, etc. If they are going to play the niche card then they need to target the customers. If you get a community buzzing about it (say hikers, climbers, etc) then they can move product. Hell, if they were smart they'd partner with Subaru and give away a camera with every car.

That would also be a good 'in' to LLBean, Subaru has (or had) the LLBean Subaru and there field is outdoor clothing. How about a parka with a built in Pentax pouch?
07-30-2009, 10:23 PM   #29
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Most of the the dSLR users in my own social circle are Canikon loyalists.
I can see that the K-7 is the first Pentax camera in a long time to pique their interest.

One of the key issues which Pentax has to fix quickly is to make the K-7 available in traditional retail camera stores. The K-7 is really impressive when you get to hold it and try shooting with it. It just performs differently from any previous Pentax body.
07-30-2009, 10:32 PM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Eigengrau Quote
If weather resistance, price, or size are critical to you then I would argue the K-7 is a better choice than the D300s.
Don't forget in-camera shake reduction. In my book, this is a huge advantage to Pentax. I am well aware that Nikon has VR lenses, but they charge a very big premium for them as well.

Rob
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