Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
08-02-2009, 05:24 AM   #61
Senior Member




Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 102
QuoteOriginally posted by Jasvox Quote
For $500 more...is it a 50% better camera?
You be the judge. Here are the D300s advantages over the K-7:

- AF with 51-points, 15 cross-type + Auto-focus tracking by color using RGB AE sensor
- 1/250 X-sync (vs. 1/180 in the K-7)
- Viewfinder with 2% higher magnification
- 7 fps or 8 fps with the vertical grip (vs. 5.2 fps in the K-7)
- RAW can support 14 bit and can use lossy compression
- Dual memory slots (CF+SD)
- Movie mode supports contrast AF and in-camera movie editing
- Flash exposure lock
- Shutter guaranteed for up to 150,000 actuations (K-7 guaranteed up to 100,000)
- Wider selection of affordable 1st party lenses (Pentax lenses are becoming pricier by the day)

And here are the K-7 advantages over the D300s:

- In-body image stabilization (SR) works with all existing lenses
- $500 less expensive
- Almost 200 gram / 0.4 lb lighter; significantly smaller
- DNG support
- Manual or automatic horizon correction using sensor tilt; Composition adjustment via sensor shift
- Pixel remapping
- Digital preview
- Automatic AF correction based on ambient light color temperature
- HyperProgram
- Higher resolution (14.6 MP vs. 12.3MP)
- LCD color calibration
- Cold weather support down to -10 degree C
- Dust alert
- 3-exposure HDR
- Copyright embedding in EXIF
- Multiple exposures up to 9 exposures (without tone mapping or overexposure)
- The green button; ISO, WB and Menu button accessible using the right hand; RAW button
- Wider selection of sealed lenses (including two affordable ones); Much wider selection of stabilized lenses (via SR)

As a user of Minolta and Olympus DSLR's, if I had to choose between the D300s and the K-7 I'd prefer the Pentax even if the price was the same (assuming early issues are ironed out). For $500 less it's a no-brainer, at least to those who aren't invested in existing systems.

Prog.

08-02-2009, 08:35 AM   #62
Veteran Member
rparmar's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,783
QuoteOriginally posted by Prognathous Quote
You be the judge. Here are the D300s advantages over the K-7
Quite a detailed list. For me it boils down to the following.

Nikon D300s advantages:
  • better flash system
  • better AF
  • support and availability of Nikon gear worldwide

Pentax K-7 advantages:
  • in-body stabilization
  • lighter and smaller
  • better operational ergonomics
  • Limited lenses

If I was a wedding photographer or other pro shooter I'd go for Nikon (though probably the D700). As an artist finicky about ultimate quality I go for Pentax.
08-02-2009, 08:45 AM   #63
Senior Member




Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 166
QuoteOriginally posted by Prognathous Quote
You be the judge. Here are the D300s advantages over the K-7:

- AF with 51-points, 15 cross-type + Auto-focus tracking by color using RGB AE sensor
- 1/250 X-sync (vs. 1/180 in the K-7)
- Viewfinder with 2% higher magnification
- 7 fps or 8 fps with the vertical grip (vs. 5.2 fps in the K-7)
- RAW can support 14 bit and can use lossy compression
- Dual memory slots (CF+SD)
- Movie mode supports contrast AF and in-camera movie editing
- Flash exposure lock
- Shutter guaranteed for up to 150,000 actuations (K-7 guaranteed up to 100,000)
- Wider selection of affordable 1st party lenses (Pentax lenses are becoming pricier by the day)

And here are the K-7 advantages over the D300s:

- In-body image stabilization (SR) works with all existing lenses
- $500 less expensive
- Almost 200 gram / 0.4 lb lighter; significantly smaller
- DNG support
- Manual or automatic horizon correction using sensor tilt; Composition adjustment via sensor shift
- Pixel remapping
- Digital preview
- Automatic AF correction based on ambient light color temperature
- HyperProgram
- Higher resolution (14.6 MP vs. 12.3MP)
- LCD color calibration
- Cold weather support down to -10 degree C
- Dust alert
- 3-exposure HDR
- Copyright embedding in EXIF
- Multiple exposures up to 9 exposures (without tone mapping or overexposure)
- The green button; ISO, WB and Menu button accessible using the right hand; RAW button
- Wider selection of sealed lenses (including two affordable ones); Much wider selection of stabilized lenses (via SR)

As a user of Minolta and Olympus DSLR's, if I had to choose between the D300s and the K-7 I'd prefer the Pentax even if the price was the same (assuming early issues are ironed out). For $500 less it's a no-brainer, at least to those who aren't invested in existing systems.

Prog.
You missed i-TTL/CLS, Nikon's far more capable flash system. Nobody else is even in shouting distance of what Nikon's flash system can do. You also missed the greatly increased battery life you get with the EN-EL4a battery in the grip (2500 RAW shots per charge on the EN-EL4a alone) and the level display on the rear. Nikon also offers a wider selection of sealed lenses than Pentax's 8, although the Pentax's are better sealed. Nikon also offers copyright embedding in files, as well as custom filenames (the latter of which Pentax does not support). Nikon also supports GPS embedding directly (you can plug a GPS unit into the D300s and embedded the data at the time of shooting). The D300s also allows you to use the WT-4/4a WiFi dongle which supports Live View feeds over the wireless network as well as file transfers over wireless and wired networks. You can actually control the D300s fully via Camera Control Pro from a remote location including actual confirmation of what the camera is seeing. And the D300s has on-demand viewfinder gridlines, the K-7 requires a focus screen swap.

Another major capability the D300s has that all the Pentax's lack is the ability to design, trade and load completely custom tone curves. And Nikon's CaptureNX2 software can both apply any tone curve you load in the camera (as well as any additional ones you might have on your computer), create said tone curves, and automatically starts the RAW edit off with the camera-selected tone curve. It's also far more capable as a RAW converter and general image editor than SilkyPIX.

Personally, I'd rather have the K-7. But the D300s's price advantage comes with a significant amount of performance advantages.
08-02-2009, 12:28 PM   #64
RaduA
Guest




there is more than just the body

The biggest mistake IMO is to compare prices for body only simply because we're more advanced than the average user. I see Pentax a.t.m. extracting the most profit possible by selling the K-7 as a body only with very few exceptions worldwide catering for enthusiasts but the bulk of sales is still to come from the more regular users. In the end sales of body only are pretty low from the total for any brand and camera except for the highest of levels (not this case anyway).
The real onslaught will come with the full availability of the kit and dual kit versions days away from sale in Japan for example. Looking at some prices K-7 with both WR lenses is in stock here for 1311 Euro (including 19% VAT), D300s + 18-200 VR2 (not w.r. lens btw) is expected in September for 2470 Euro. The guy with the Pentax would have maybe a slightly less competent optical combo but he can upgrade only the range he wants more and without doubt he can sell easy the WR lenses to Pentaxians with older bodies. And Pentax subsidize a lot of the price when bundled in kit vs. retail! Also the D300s with the 18-200 is about 1,5 kilos and K-7 with either of the two lenses are close to 1 kilo tops and very significantly less in size.
Also people say Capture NX is better than whatever comes with Pentax but the Nikon software IS EXTRA adding to the final cost.
Finally the performance difference between D300s and K-7 is much less than the performance difference between D300 and K20D. Yes 7 fps are more than 5.2 but it's not like the 6 to 3 of the past. And although Nikon's AF system is better, without any doubt K-7's AF will be more than enough in any circumstances for most users and is a big step ahead compared to K20D.
In the end Nikon could offer more but at a price that won't justify for many the purchase in this times of recession.

Radu


Last edited by RaduA; 08-02-2009 at 12:30 PM. Reason: typo in the subject line :o
08-02-2009, 12:28 PM   #65
Veteran Member




Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rancho Cucamonga, CA
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 379
QuoteOriginally posted by mawz Quote
Personally, I'd rather have the K-7. But the D300s's price advantage comes with a significant amount of performance advantages.
I would rather have a K-7 too, but if I really needed the performance advantages of the D300, and was willing to put a system together around it, I would have a hard time not getting the D700 instead. I think the D300 is in an increasingly difficult price/performance category.
08-02-2009, 01:46 PM   #66
Ash
Community Manager
Loyal Site Supporter
Ash's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Toowoomba, Queensland
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 22,695
QuoteOriginally posted by GaryM Quote
I would rather have a K-7 too, but if I really needed the performance advantages of the D300, and was willing to put a system together around it, I would have a hard time not getting the D700 instead. I think the D300 is in an increasingly difficult price/performance category.
This is a good point, and is where Pentax does well and can capitalise on the photo market. Sure, the D300s sounds like a notch above the K-7 in many aspects, but most people (importantly, the non-pro consumers) also look at price to determine which system they can afford and invest into.
08-02-2009, 02:12 PM   #67
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 125
With the D700 out, the D300 isn't good propositions anymore...

Unless you want HD movies - which, depending on the user, might be a very important feature.

I'd go for the K-7 for its smaller, lighter, build alone. In all other aspects, save tracking AF, flash ability, rental availability and resell value, the K-7 matches or beats the D300.

Plus, for the size and weight of the D300, the D700 would be a much better body. If you want HD video, I'm sure the D700s will soon come out to meet that need.

Size and weight makes the K-7 trumps both the D300 and the D300s. I bet in 5 years time, in the event where 36x24 penetrates the market enough to be seen as a sure-replacement of APS-C, Pentax will come out with its own 36x24 digital. And by that time the technology will be there to make FF bodies the size of K-7, at which point I'll finally be going to jump and abandon the K-7.
08-02-2009, 05:06 PM   #68
Senior Member
Eigengrau's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Colorado
Photos: Albums
Posts: 250
Original Poster
"Yes sir, the competition are watching and doing so very closely."

I've got to agree, which is why I posted this originally - Nikon and Canon didn't become market leaders by ignoring the photography community. And, if I'm not mistaken, this board saw more activity than any other time in history when the news about the K-7 was out.

Pentax did a few things right with this one, and I think even the big guys might be taking note of it.

08-02-2009, 05:24 PM   #69
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
Posts: 851
QuoteOriginally posted by rparmar Quote
Quite a detailed list. For me it boils down to the following.

Nikon D300s advantages:
  • better flash system
  • better AF
  • support and availability of Nikon gear worldwide

Pentax K-7 advantages:
  • in-body stabilization
  • lighter and smaller
  • better operational ergonomics
  • Limited lenses

If I was a wedding photographer or other pro shooter I'd go for Nikon (though probably the D700). As an artist finicky about ultimate quality I go for Pentax.
Until yesterday I would have agreed with you about the Nikon flash system (based mostly on reputation). But yesterday I was contracted by a photo company to shoot youth sports portraits using their D200 camera and SB800 flash. The photo company had strict guidelines about exactly what settings they wanted me to use (they have a variety of shooters with varying levels of experience so they like to dictate settings to get consistency). I was shooting in P mode (center weight metering) with the flash in TTL. I was adjusting the flash anywhere from -1/3 to +1 depending on the shot.

What I found was that my flash exposures were coming out all over the place. Like I said it was not my camera and not my memory card so I can't show you any examples but if I snapped off 3 pictures in fairly rapid succession (3 year olds posing for portraits sometime require some fairly rapid fire techniques) I would get 3 completely different exposures.

In addition to the poor flash metering I found the recycle time of the SB800 to be very dissappointing. Despite using brand new batteries I was getting > 1 sec recycle times for many shots. Since I was in TTL mode I don't know exactly how much power it was putting out but my best guess is that if I had been setting the flash power manually (which I would have normally done for these particular shots) I would have been between 1/8 and 1/2 power.

The other thing I learned from the day was that Pentax continues to hold significant advantage over both Canon and Nikon with control layout and ergonomics. If you want to see some odd control features try to figure out how to either format a memory card on a Nikon D200/300 or how to "zoom" in (on the lcd) on a picture you have just taken. The combination button pushing required for those two tasks will amaze the average Pentaxian. It took me almost all day to figure those out even after being shown (quickly) once.
08-02-2009, 06:57 PM   #70
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2009
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,679
QuoteOriginally posted by Igilligan Quote
haha... It was painkillers and diet coke, but you were right on the money, I was on a tip!~

Sometimes when I come here from the other forum, I bring my shithead persona with me.
They make me this way.
I come over here and the first thread I read, I go all DPRambo.

I feel foolish and somewhat sad... Oops, the painkillers are reacting with the caffeine!

Psst... they have already lost the gamble. It was not a good move.
Nice to know I am not alone...not the only one!! "Vitamin" V q4h prn, a touch of OC bid, and a daily pot of Turkish grind cold with soy milk every day. oh yippie??
08-02-2009, 07:24 PM   #71
Veteran Member
nulla's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Melbourne Australia
Posts: 1,560
QuoteQuote:
Until yesterday I would have agreed with you about the Nikon flash system (based mostly on reputation). But yesterday I was contracted by a photo company to shoot youth sports portraits using their D200 camera and SB800 flash. The photo company had strict guidelines about exactly what settings they wanted me to use (they have a variety of shooters with varying levels of experience so they like to dictate settings to get consistency). I was shooting in P mode (center weight metering) with the flash in TTL. I was adjusting the flash anywhere from -1/3 to +1 depending on the shot.

What I found was that my flash exposures were coming out all over the place. Like I said it was not my camera and not my memory card so I can't show you any examples but if I snapped off 3 pictures in fairly rapid succession (3 year olds posing for portraits sometime require some fairly rapid fire techniques) I would get 3 completely different exposures.
I would like to add as well that I really think that the K-7 has improved leaps and bounds with flash.

Neil

Neil
08-02-2009, 07:48 PM   #72
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Borås, Sweden
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,165
QuoteOriginally posted by wolfier Quote
Unless you want HD movies - which, depending on the user, might be a very important feature.

I'd go for the K-7 for its smaller, lighter, build alone. In all other aspects, save tracking AF, flash ability, rental availability and resell value, the K-7 matches or beats the D300.

Plus, for the size and weight of the D300, the D700 would be a much better body. If you want HD video, I'm sure the D700s will soon come out to meet that need.

Size and weight makes the K-7 trumps both the D300 and the D300s. I bet in 5 years time, in the event where 36x24 penetrates the market enough to be seen as a sure-replacement of APS-C, Pentax will come out with its own 36x24 digital. And by that time the technology will be there to make FF bodies the size of K-7, at which point I'll finally be going to jump and abandon the K-7.
You are neglecting the impact of the crop sensor on the D300. The D700 is an awesome, awesome camera but for wildlife photographers having higher pixel density can be important. In Canon land you find a lot of the wildlife and bird shooters using 1D (1.3x crop) or 40D/50D (1.6x crop) instead of the FF cameras for this very reason.
08-02-2009, 09:10 PM   #73
New Member




Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Perth Australia
Posts: 19
QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
I hope you're not referring to the flash system. That is one area where Nikon is so far ahead of the pack it isn't funny.
What differences are you referring to regarding the flash system? According to this link that someone posted (Digital Cameras Side-by-Side, 3 cameras: Digital Photography Review) the K7 has a better flash and more flash options than the D300s? Or am i missing something?
08-02-2009, 09:24 PM   #74
Veteran Member




Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: California
Posts: 851
I think one of the big reasons Nikon has such a reputation for their flash system is the SU-800 Commander. This little unit is one of the coolest gadgets anyone has ever made for a camera. I played with one in a strobist studio one time and I was very impressed. It allows you to control several flashes simultaneously with custom output by each one. You don't have to walk over to each flash to adjust power output as it can all be controlled from on-camera with this unit.

Nikon | SU-800 Wireless Speedlight Commander Unit | 4794 | B&H
08-03-2009, 04:06 AM   #75
Forum Member




Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Houston & Dubai
Posts: 51
This is a perfect response to the negativity against the Pentax k-7
https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-dslr-discussion/68778-wake-up-niko...tml#post691937
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, d300s, dslr, photography, shutter, video
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Stay with D300S - or go to K-5??? rlloyd3 Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 6 10-03-2010 05:31 PM
K5 in d300s & 7D class not d7000 tigerzen Pentax DSLR Discussion 5 09-22-2010 07:01 PM
Thinking about selling K20D and buying D300s foots Pentax DSLR Discussion 42 03-22-2010 06:01 PM
Nikon D300s versus Pentax K-7 ?, toughts ? brosen Pentax DSLR Discussion 61 10-21-2009 11:07 PM
Is the new Canon EOS 7D a Nikon D300s killer? skamalpreet Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 46 09-12-2009 05:46 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:32 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top