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pingflood · 08-03-2009, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by defiant

What differences are you referring to regarding the flash system? According to this link that someone posted (Digital Cameras Side-by-Side, 3 cameras: Digital Photography Review) the K7 has a better flash and more flash options than the D300s? Or am i missing something?

Yes, go try Nikon's CLS system out. I use Canon but their wireless flash system doesn't hold a candle to Nikon's as far as how well it works in practice.

mawz · 08-04-2009, 06:34 AM

Originally posted by defiant

What differences are you referring to regarding the flash system? According to this link that someone posted (Digital Cameras Side-by-Side, 3 cameras: Digital Photography Review) the K7 has a better flash and more flash options than the D300s? Or am i missing something?

The P-TTL system is both less reliable and significantly lower capability than i-TTL. i-TTL can control either 3 or 4 flash groups completely independently via wireless control. P-TTL can do one. Nikon's flash system also has a well earned reputation for having the best metering out there and the top-end flashes have features offered in no other system (GN-priority, TTL following optical slaves).

Nikon has far and away the most capable flash system. It's really the only place where a single maker has a major advantage over any of the other brands.

mawz · 08-04-2009, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by kunik

Until yesterday I would have agreed with you about the Nikon flash system (based mostly on reputation). But yesterday I was contracted by a photo company to shoot youth sports portraits using their D200 camera and SB800 flash. The photo company had strict guidelines about exactly what settings they wanted me to use (they have a variety of shooters with varying levels of experience so they like to dictate settings to get consistency). I was shooting in P mode (center weight metering) with the flash in TTL. I was adjusting the flash anywhere from -1/3 to +1 depending on the shot.

What I found was that my flash exposures were coming out all over the place. Like I said it was not my camera and not my memory card so I can't show you any examples but if I snapped off 3 pictures in fairly rapid succession (3 year olds posing for portraits sometime require some fairly rapid fire techniques) I would get 3 completely different exposures.

In addition to the poor flash metering I found the recycle time of the SB800 to be very dissappointing. Despite using brand new batteries I was getting > 1 sec recycle times for many shots. Since I was in TTL mode I don't know exactly how much power it was putting out but my best guess is that if I had been setting the flash power manually (which I would have normally done for these particular shots) I would have been between 1/8 and 1/2 power.

The other thing I learned from the day was that Pentax continues to hold significant advantage over both Canon and Nikon with control layout and ergonomics. If you want to see some odd control features try to figure out how to either format a memory card on a Nikon D200/300 or how to "zoom" in (on the lcd) on a picture you have just taken. The combination button pushing required for those two tasks will amaze the average Pentaxian. It took me almost all day to figure those out even after being shown (quickly) once.

They made a distinct mistake in specifying centre-weighted metering, which will greatly reduce flash accuracy in the (amazingly complex) Nikon i-TTL system, stay in Matrix if you want truly accurate flash. It sounds like their 'standard settings' were developed either for Nikon's older D-TTL system or the film-era TTL systems where it would have been the correct choice.

The SB-800 does have a fairly poor recycling time when running off 4 batteries, which is why it comes with a 5th battery compartment which replaces the battery compartment lid, you can also use Quantum turbo packs if needed. The SB-900 is much faster to recycle off 4 batteries.

Formatting a card on a D300 is significantly quicker to do than on a Pentax. Zoom on the D300 is quite easy, but IIRC the D200 shares the older and kinda wierd zoom controls of the D70/D50, I'm not sure about how the D200 does formating (It's a 2-button press and confirm on the D300, no damned menus).

Class A · 08-05-2009, 05:59 AM

Originally posted by falconeye

Add to the list the electronic horizon

On the D300s it only seems to work in Live View, though?

08-04-2009, 06:34 AM	#77
mawz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 166	Originally posted by defiant What differences are you referring to regarding the flash system? According to this link that someone posted (Digital Cameras Side-by-Side, 3 cameras: Digital Photography Review) the K7 has a better flash and more flash options than the D300s? Or am i missing something? The P-TTL system is both less reliable and significantly lower capability than i-TTL. i-TTL can control either 3 or 4 flash groups completely independently via wireless control. P-TTL can do one. Nikon's flash system also has a well earned reputation for having the best metering out there and the top-end flashes have features offered in no other system (GN-priority, TTL following optical slaves). Nikon has far and away the most capable flash system. It's really the only place where a single maker has a major advantage over any of the other brands. Last edited by mawz; 08-04-2009 at 06:41 AM.

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08-03-2009, 04:32 AM	#76
pingflood Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Borås, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,169	Originally posted by defiant What differences are you referring to regarding the flash system? According to this link that someone posted (Digital Cameras Side-by-Side, 3 cameras: Digital Photography Review) the K7 has a better flash and more flash options than the D300s? Or am i missing something? Yes, go try Nikon's CLS system out. I use Canon but their wireless flash system doesn't hold a candle to Nikon's as far as how well it works in practice.

08-04-2009, 06:40 AM	#78
mawz Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 166	Originally posted by kunik Until yesterday I would have agreed with you about the Nikon flash system (based mostly on reputation). But yesterday I was contracted by a photo company to shoot youth sports portraits using their D200 camera and SB800 flash. The photo company had strict guidelines about exactly what settings they wanted me to use (they have a variety of shooters with varying levels of experience so they like to dictate settings to get consistency). I was shooting in P mode (center weight metering) with the flash in TTL. I was adjusting the flash anywhere from -1/3 to +1 depending on the shot. What I found was that my flash exposures were coming out all over the place. Like I said it was not my camera and not my memory card so I can't show you any examples but if I snapped off 3 pictures in fairly rapid succession (3 year olds posing for portraits sometime require some fairly rapid fire techniques) I would get 3 completely different exposures. In addition to the poor flash metering I found the recycle time of the SB800 to be very dissappointing. Despite using brand new batteries I was getting > 1 sec recycle times for many shots. Since I was in TTL mode I don't know exactly how much power it was putting out but my best guess is that if I had been setting the flash power manually (which I would have normally done for these particular shots) I would have been between 1/8 and 1/2 power. The other thing I learned from the day was that Pentax continues to hold significant advantage over both Canon and Nikon with control layout and ergonomics. If you want to see some odd control features try to figure out how to either format a memory card on a Nikon D200/300 or how to "zoom" in (on the lcd) on a picture you have just taken. The combination button pushing required for those two tasks will amaze the average Pentaxian. It took me almost all day to figure those out even after being shown (quickly) once. They made a distinct mistake in specifying centre-weighted metering, which will greatly reduce flash accuracy in the (amazingly complex) Nikon i-TTL system, stay in Matrix if you want truly accurate flash. It sounds like their 'standard settings' were developed either for Nikon's older D-TTL system or the film-era TTL systems where it would have been the correct choice. The SB-800 does have a fairly poor recycling time when running off 4 batteries, which is why it comes with a 5th battery compartment which replaces the battery compartment lid, you can also use Quantum turbo packs if needed. The SB-900 is much faster to recycle off 4 batteries. Formatting a card on a D300 is significantly quicker to do than on a Pentax. Zoom on the D300 is quite easy, but IIRC the D200 shares the older and kinda wierd zoom controls of the D70/D50, I'm not sure about how the D200 does formating (It's a 2-button press and confirm on the D300, no damned menus).

08-05-2009, 05:59 AM	#79
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by falconeye Add to the list the electronic horizon On the D300s it only seems to work in Live View, though?

D300S an answer to the K-7?

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