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08-03-2009, 02:13 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcjm78 Quote
For bigger view of the picture.. you can click here.
Picasa Web Albums - Michael - Drop Box

and here

Picasa Web Albums - Michael - Drop Box

Ohh yah.. you can press the magnifiying glass to view the real 100% from those link.
Thank's for those comparisons

08-03-2009, 02:36 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcjm78 Quote
Thanks to this thread.. I think I gonna use -4 Sharpness for my JPEG in my K7 now.

No wonder I was finding all the "grains" a bit too big for my taste compared to my K20 and K10. I fiddled with my NR settings.. thinking maybe too much NR that caused the grain.

The funny thing about K7 JPEG setting is, I can't use a +1 sharpness and -3 fine sharpness, whereas in K20D, you can set both independent of each other. Maybe its a bug????
[Edit: No.. its not.. I must be dreaming that up.. sorry ]

Anyway... some picture to show my findings..
Picture 1,2,3,4 are set at Sharpness +4 (max), +1 (Default for Bright), -2, -4 (min)

Notice the grains in the white area of the 'W'
Added +Sharpness can be good for low ISO, low-noise shots with a good prime lens - you'll be amazed at the amount of micro-detail you can bring out from what the K-7 captures. Its like something which wasn't there suddenly appearing out of the photo. The default sharpness just smears away those tiny details.

At high-ISO, the photo looks better with reduced sharpness, because you will otherwise be sharpening the noise as well.

So One-Size doesn't fit all.

Anyway, if you shoot RAW it doesn't matter.
08-03-2009, 04:06 AM   #33
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I agree with the low ISO shots... Its just that the typical lighting condition I shoot need high ISO, unless I use flash.

Maybe i should set a User setting for good lighting condition .. then I can use the + sharpness setting.
08-03-2009, 04:21 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by jbinpg Quote
Now I know why I'm a raw shooter......
Absolutely, JPEG is a waste of time IMO but I appreciate some people need/want to use it.

08-03-2009, 07:53 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by kittykat46 Quote
Added +Sharpness can be good for low ISO, low-noise shots with a good prime lens - you'll be amazed at the amount of micro-detail you can bring out from what the K-7 captures. Its like something which wasn't there suddenly appearing out of the photo. The default sharpness just smears away those tiny details.

At high-ISO, the photo looks better with reduced sharpness, because you will otherwise be sharpening the noise as well.

So One-Size doesn't fit all.

Anyway, if you shoot RAW it doesn't matter.
Just tested this myself on K-7 with 1.01 firmware, and reducing sharpness does look better for ISO 800-1600+. Now being a noob, for RAW users, how do you reduce sharpness that K-7 in body sets in Adobe PS CS3 for the same effect as reducing in body sharpness for JPEGs ?
08-03-2009, 11:10 AM   #36
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does this sharpness theory hold true also for the k2000 or does it apply only to CMOS ?

tnx
08-03-2009, 11:42 AM   #37
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does -4 apply negative sharpness or no sharpness at all?
08-03-2009, 12:01 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
does this sharpness theory hold true also for the k2000 or does it apply only to CMOS ?

tnx
It should apply to any DSLR. I know I noticed it before in other cameras which is why I made the suggestion to the OP. In fact it will happen in postprocessing as well if you apply too much sharpening. There is a tradeoff between sharpening and noise. Adobe even puts in a warning in thier discussion of image shaprening and noise reduction:

QuoteQuote:
When reducing noise, be careful not to increase the settings so high as to oversoften the image. If the image does become soft, be sure to increase the overall sharpening amounts. In fact, that’s why the Noise Reduction and Sharpening controls are located in the same panel!

QuoteOriginally posted by Eruditass Quote
does -4 apply negative sharpness or no sharpness at all?
Image processing settings on cameras are all relative. We really don't know what level of processing such as sharpening, is applied to an image between the time it leaves the sensor, to when it shows up on the screen. Even the RAW file has some inherent processing. Only PENTAX engineers would know exacltly how much processing is done between the sensor signal and what we see.

So to answer your question: -4 simply means 4 levels (an undefined amount) lower than whatever level (also undefined) is zero.


Last edited by PentaxPoke; 08-03-2009 at 12:20 PM.
08-05-2009, 02:26 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
In fact it will happen in postprocessing as well if you apply too much sharpening.
Which is why shooting RAW does not magically make the noise vs sharpening problem go away. The correct sharpening choice is just deferred to PP.
Having said that, in PP one can use more sophisticated sharpening algorithms, apply sharpening locally, etc. For instance, USM (unsharp mask) allows to set a contrast threshold below which no sharpening (and hence noise enhancement) will take place. There is no such configuration facility for in-camera sharpening.


QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxPoke Quote
-4 simply means 4 levels (an undefined amount) lower than whatever level (also undefined) is zero.
Let's say "unknown" rather than "undefined".
08-05-2009, 02:59 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by opiedog Quote
does this sharpness theory hold true also for the k2000 or does it apply only to CMOS ?
I don't know about any "theories", but the fact that increasing sharpness increases the sharpness of noise along with the sharpness of details is true of *any* camera.
08-05-2009, 03:07 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Which is why shooting RAW does not magically make the noise vs sharpening problem go away. The correct sharpening choice is just deferred to PP.
Having said that, in PP one can use more sophisticated sharpening algorithms, apply sharpening locally, etc.
It also seems like sharpening would be much less damaging if applied after NR, and AFAIK, you don't even have the option of in-camera NR at low ISO on the K-7...
08-05-2009, 11:29 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
BINGO!

It was the sharpening settings. I put the jpeg settings to default and focused both cameras on the thermostat. Really appreciate this forum's help. Thanks.

K10D


K10D misses focus with the DA21 in low light most of the time.


K-7
This is help for the rest of us too, so thanks for clearing it out
08-22-2009, 11:30 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by pcarfan Quote
BINGO!

It was the sharpening settings. I put the jpeg settings to default and focused both cameras on the thermostat. Really appreciate this forum's help. Thanks.

K10D


K10D misses focus with the DA21 in low light most of the time.


K-7
Does your K10D always have focusing issues like that or is it only with that particular lens?

I'm just asking to find out how much better the AF is on the K-7 vs K10D
08-23-2009, 10:19 AM   #44
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Not always. I didn't notice it with other lenses. But, with the DA21 I've seen it a few times.
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