Hmm, K-7 ergos

Andi Lo · 08-01-2009, 12:04 PM

I just tried K7 at the same time as K20 today. K20 is the same as I previously remembered it, huge and a bit too big for my hands, but still feels nice. K-7 though, is just BEGGING for a grip, It seems to be designed so that I can put my middle finger on the curved part of the grip, but that leaves absolutely no place for the pinky. On the K100 I can somehow fit my pinky on the camera. Maybe I'm just not used to it yet but if it does have to have a grip to be comfortable, does it not kill the purpose of a small camera? Please feel free to share your impressions on this.

AF, screen, controls seems to be just fine, nothing that stands out over the K20 but maybe it's just me not being familiar enough with both cameras. The Iso and Exposure compensation isn't as easy to reach as K100's Exposure compensation as I need two hands to use it comfortably, but with K-7's metering compensation may be much less of an issue.

wlachan · 08-01-2009, 12:26 PM

Don't forget the camera was designed by Japanese, or should I say asians who generally are shorter with smaller hands. There is no one size fit all grip and the designers have to make some tough choices. Also, people get used to anything given enough time. Pretty much all cameras that I have owned took me some time to get used to, but never a big deal in the end.

nulla · 08-01-2009, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Don't forget the camera was designed by Japanese, or should I say asians who generally are shorter with smaller hands

mmm designed for shorter asians.. they made an error in not lowering the viewfinder for them

Neil

octavmandru · 08-01-2009, 01:15 PM

Dangerous drifts... But I agree about the grip.
My friend from China bought Canon 450D exactly for this reason. My k200 "handle" is way too deep for his fingers.
on the other hand, I need BG for both K20 and K200, and to be honest the groove of K20 is not deep enough for me.
Canon 450D... well I could not cope with the gripping on that one.

PolishMike · 08-01-2009, 03:06 PM

Just got my K-7 (battery charging now, how long can it bloody take!?). I have to say, I've got large-ish hands (big palms, average length fingers) and the grip feels pretty great - it's much better for me than the K100D, K20D and Nikon D90 - with a small lens I can hold the K-7 one handed while using both control wheels much better than the others. The big middle figher recess combined with the angled front scrollwheel makes using it a joy - on the Nikon D90 I would have to shift my grip slightly from my normal "carrying position" to use that wheel.

As to the EV compensation, I have the K100 and K-7 on front of me right now with similar weight lenses, and while adjusting the compensation on the K100 one-handed it slips out of my grip. On the K-7 I have to strain my index finger a bit more to reach the button while using the rear control wheel but at the same time my grip on the camera is more secure. I think it's a matter of getting used to it. The ISO compensation button is a stretch, but I kind of like it being out of the way, as I don't tend to switch ISO that often. All the controls are a joy to use once you hold the camera as it's meant to be - with two hands.

If I was designing the grip for my hand I would make it about 0.5cm deeper and make the whole thing taller to accomodate my pinky better, but few things are perfect.

Andi Lo · 08-01-2009, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by PolishMike

As to the EV compensation, I have the K100 and K-7 on front of me right now with similar weight lenses, and while adjusting the compensation on the K100 one-handed it slips out of my grip. On the K-7 I have to strain my index finger a bit more to reach the button while using the rear control wheel but at the same time my grip on the camera is more secure. I think it's a matter of getting used to it. The ISO compensation button is a stretch, but I kind of like it being out of the way, as I don't tend to switch ISO that often. All the controls are a joy to use once you hold the camera as it's meant to be - with two hands.

Yep, that seems to be the case for me as well, getting to the exposure compensation button feels like a stretch, and during my 20 minute use of it in store it feels somewhat less ergonomic because of that, but maybe you're right that the grip would make it more secure. I can adjust exposure compensation without using two hands on K100D, but I probably couldn't before. I just don't notice it anymore...

At any rate I kind of NEED better autofocus sooner or later so I'll probably end up getting the K-7 or its succesor

davidt · 08-02-2009, 01:11 AM

This was my first feeling too: That the K-7 is somehow designed to be used with a grip. Where the K10d+grip was nearly "overkill" the K-7 has even with grip a very good size and can be used in both ways: as a light travel SLR or with a good grip for longer lenses. Especially when using it with my 50-135mm, holding in one-hand for a while it get's really uncomfortable. At the lower area of my palm is quite some SLR missing. That's where I start wishing to have a BG. But it's quite expensive and I'm wondering why Pentax (and other manufacturers) isn't using the grip in a more versatile way: The ability too use Batteries is a good first step but is it not possible to e.g. build it for 2 batteries, a GPS extension or other -upgrades-?

The placement of the EV/ISO buttons I actually find a good choice. At the beginning you always hit the wrong buttons because of the new layout but I think it's a good one after being used to it.

Jasvox · 08-02-2009, 01:46 AM

If Pentax purposely designed the K-7 to be used with a grip, then there goes the advantage of a smaller body, less weight, etc. This seems to be a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion, not that this was Pentax's intentions.

Jason

davidt · 08-02-2009, 02:04 AM

Originally posted by Jasvox

If Pentax purposely designed the K-7 to be used with a grip, then there goes the advantage of a smaller body, less weight, etc. This seems to be a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion, not that this was Pentax's intentions.

Jason

Smaller lenses like the 16-50mm are just fine, same as Limiteds I guess ;-)
Remember as Pentax outlined the K-7 was specifically designed to go better with Limited lenses and what I have seen the fit very well, same as older lenses.

Maffer · 08-02-2009, 02:56 AM

Small size fits all grip goes exist. That is, a grip large enough to fit the shovel sized hand. Folks with smaller hands can handle it with enough muscle or glue it to their hands. Whatever, I decided to continue with K20D + grip I already have. Skipped K-7 due to small size.

snogglethorpe · 08-02-2009, 03:07 AM

Originally posted by Maffer

Folks with smaller hands can handle it with ... or glue it to their hands.

Always a good option!

**Pål Jensen** · 08-02-2009, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Andi Lo

I just tried K7 at the same time as K20 today. K20 is the same as I previously remembered it, huge and a bit too big for my hands, but still feels nice. K-7 though, is just BEGGING for a grip, It seems to be designed so that I can put my middle finger on the curved part of the grip, but that leaves absolutely no place for the pinky. .

Weird. I have very big hands. I'm 1,90m tall. The K10D and the K-7 grip are exactly the same height. The K-7 grip is bigger than the K10D grip 'cause it is deeper. It fits bigger hands better.

Andi Lo · 08-02-2009, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Pål Jensen

Weird. I have very big hands. I'm 1,90m tall. The K10D and the K-7 grip are exactly the same height. The K-7 grip is bigger than the K10D grip 'cause it is deeper. It fits bigger hands better.

You see, the depth of the grip has never been a problem for me, but the vertical dimension is. On the K100D I can fit my pinky on the body but I can't do that on the K-7 since my middle finger is forced to be on a certain location. Might be just me not being too used to it though

nostatic · 08-02-2009, 02:53 PM

There definitely is a difference in vertical grip space on K20d vs K7. It sits in a different spot in your palm and like the OP, I found my pinky was forced off the camera unless I really crammed my fingers together.

It isn't right or wrong, but it is an ergonomic difference.

eva2000 · 08-03-2009, 02:39 AM

love the deep grip on K-7 although only my first 3 fingers do touch the body/grip with pinky off body but doesn't bother me, pinkies are useless hehe

08-01-2009, 12:04 PM	#1
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924	Hmm, K-7 ergos I just tried K7 at the same time as K20 today. K20 is the same as I previously remembered it, huge and a bit too big for my hands, but still feels nice. K-7 though, is just BEGGING for a grip, It seems to be designed so that I can put my middle finger on the curved part of the grip, but that leaves absolutely no place for the pinky. On the K100 I can somehow fit my pinky on the camera. Maybe I'm just not used to it yet but if it does have to have a grip to be comfortable, does it not kill the purpose of a small camera? Please feel free to share your impressions on this. AF, screen, controls seems to be just fine, nothing that stands out over the K20 but maybe it's just me not being familiar enough with both cameras. The Iso and Exposure compensation isn't as easy to reach as K100's Exposure compensation as I need two hands to use it comfortably, but with K-7's metering compensation may be much less of an issue.

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08-01-2009, 12:26 PM	#2
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Don't forget the camera was designed by Japanese, or should I say asians who generally are shorter with smaller hands. There is no one size fit all grip and the designers have to make some tough choices. Also, people get used to anything given enough time. Pretty much all cameras that I have owned took me some time to get used to, but never a big deal in the end.

08-01-2009, 12:29 PM	#3
nulla Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Melbourne Australia Posts: 1,560	Quote: Don't forget the camera was designed by Japanese, or should I say asians who generally are shorter with smaller hands mmm designed for shorter asians.. they made an error in not lowering the viewfinder for them Neil

08-01-2009, 01:15 PM	#4
octavmandru Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: somewhere around Posts: 615	Dangerous drifts... But I agree about the grip. My friend from China bought Canon 450D exactly for this reason. My k200 "handle" is way too deep for his fingers. on the other hand, I need BG for both K20 and K200, and to be honest the groove of K20 is not deep enough for me. Canon 450D... well I could not cope with the gripping on that one.

08-01-2009, 03:06 PM	#5
PolishMike Senior Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 150	Just got my K-7 (battery charging now, how long can it bloody take!?). I have to say, I've got large-ish hands (big palms, average length fingers) and the grip feels pretty great - it's much better for me than the K100D, K20D and Nikon D90 - with a small lens I can hold the K-7 one handed while using both control wheels much better than the others. The big middle figher recess combined with the angled front scrollwheel makes using it a joy - on the Nikon D90 I would have to shift my grip slightly from my normal "carrying position" to use that wheel. As to the EV compensation, I have the K100 and K-7 on front of me right now with similar weight lenses, and while adjusting the compensation on the K100 one-handed it slips out of my grip. On the K-7 I have to strain my index finger a bit more to reach the button while using the rear control wheel but at the same time my grip on the camera is more secure. I think it's a matter of getting used to it. The ISO compensation button is a stretch, but I kind of like it being out of the way, as I don't tend to switch ISO that often. All the controls are a joy to use once you hold the camera as it's meant to be - with two hands. If I was designing the grip for my hand I would make it about 0.5cm deeper and make the whole thing taller to accomodate my pinky better, but few things are perfect.

08-01-2009, 04:28 PM	#6
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924 Original Poster	Originally posted by PolishMike As to the EV compensation, I have the K100 and K-7 on front of me right now with similar weight lenses, and while adjusting the compensation on the K100 one-handed it slips out of my grip. On the K-7 I have to strain my index finger a bit more to reach the button while using the rear control wheel but at the same time my grip on the camera is more secure. I think it's a matter of getting used to it. The ISO compensation button is a stretch, but I kind of like it being out of the way, as I don't tend to switch ISO that often. All the controls are a joy to use once you hold the camera as it's meant to be - with two hands. Yep, that seems to be the case for me as well, getting to the exposure compensation button feels like a stretch, and during my 20 minute use of it in store it feels somewhat less ergonomic because of that, but maybe you're right that the grip would make it more secure. I can adjust exposure compensation without using two hands on K100D, but I probably couldn't before. I just don't notice it anymore... At any rate I kind of NEED better autofocus sooner or later so I'll probably end up getting the K-7 or its succesor

08-02-2009, 01:11 AM	#7
davidt Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Vienna Posts: 50	This was my first feeling too: That the K-7 is somehow designed to be used with a grip. Where the K10d+grip was nearly "overkill" the K-7 has even with grip a very good size and can be used in both ways: as a light travel SLR or with a good grip for longer lenses. Especially when using it with my 50-135mm, holding in one-hand for a while it get's really uncomfortable. At the lower area of my palm is quite some SLR missing. That's where I start wishing to have a BG. But it's quite expensive and I'm wondering why Pentax (and other manufacturers) isn't using the grip in a more versatile way: The ability too use Batteries is a good first step but is it not possible to e.g. build it for 2 batteries, a GPS extension or other -upgrades-? The placement of the EV/ISO buttons I actually find a good choice. At the beginning you always hit the wrong buttons because of the new layout but I think it's a good one after being used to it.

08-02-2009, 01:46 AM	#8
Jasvox Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 3,107	If Pentax purposely designed the K-7 to be used with a grip, then there goes the advantage of a smaller body, less weight, etc. This seems to be a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion, not that this was Pentax's intentions. Jason

08-02-2009, 02:04 AM	#9
davidt Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Vienna Posts: 50	Originally posted by Jasvox If Pentax purposely designed the K-7 to be used with a grip, then there goes the advantage of a smaller body, less weight, etc. This seems to be a bit of an oxymoron in my opinion, not that this was Pentax's intentions. Jason Smaller lenses like the 16-50mm are just fine, same as Limiteds I guess ;-) Remember as Pentax outlined the K-7 was specifically designed to go better with Limited lenses and what I have seen the fit very well, same as older lenses.

08-02-2009, 02:56 AM	#10
Maffer Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Finland Photos: Gallery Posts: 308	Small size fits all grip goes exist. That is, a grip large enough to fit the shovel sized hand. Folks with smaller hands can handle it with enough muscle or glue it to their hands. Whatever, I decided to continue with K20D + grip I already have. Skipped K-7 due to small size.

08-02-2009, 03:07 AM	#11
snogglethorpe Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 71	Originally posted by Maffer Folks with smaller hands can handle it with ... or glue it to their hands. Always a good option!

08-02-2009, 02:03 PM	#12
Pål Jensen Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Norway Photos: Albums Posts: 4,371	Originally posted by Andi Lo I just tried K7 at the same time as K20 today. K20 is the same as I previously remembered it, huge and a bit too big for my hands, but still feels nice. K-7 though, is just BEGGING for a grip, It seems to be designed so that I can put my middle finger on the curved part of the grip, but that leaves absolutely no place for the pinky. . Weird. I have very big hands. I'm 1,90m tall. The K10D and the K-7 grip are exactly the same height. The K-7 grip is bigger than the K10D grip 'cause it is deeper. It fits bigger hands better.

08-02-2009, 02:32 PM	#13
Andi Lo Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia Posts: 2,924 Original Poster	Originally posted by Pål Jensen Weird. I have very big hands. I'm 1,90m tall. The K10D and the K-7 grip are exactly the same height. The K-7 grip is bigger than the K10D grip 'cause it is deeper. It fits bigger hands better. You see, the depth of the grip has never been a problem for me, but the vertical dimension is. On the K100D I can fit my pinky on the body but I can't do that on the K-7 since my middle finger is forced to be on a certain location. Might be just me not being too used to it though

08-02-2009, 02:53 PM	#14
nostatic Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: socal Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,575	There definitely is a difference in vertical grip space on K20d vs K7. It sits in a different spot in your palm and like the OP, I found my pinky was forced off the camera unless I really crammed my fingers together. It isn't right or wrong, but it is an ergonomic difference.

08-03-2009, 02:39 AM	#15
eva2000 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Brisbane, Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 239	love the deep grip on K-7 although only my first 3 fingers do touch the body/grip with pinky off body but doesn't bother me, pinkies are useless hehe