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08-05-2009, 01:56 PM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
What the heck are you going on about? It's a single freakin' dial you turn to change the aperture if in Program, Av or Manual mode.

Or are you talking about video?
There's no hyper modes!!!! no green button, you gotta go into AV or manual to change aperture it doesn't work in program mode ( or do I just have something set up wrong in the menu ).

Trust me here it's like a double step and how the hell am I to use that rear dial when my eye is looking thru the finder with out poking my self in the eye!!

or am I just having withdrawals from the k7

08-05-2009, 02:42 PM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
There's no hyper modes!!!! no green button, you gotta go into AV or manual to change aperture it doesn't work in program mode ( or do I just have something set up wrong in the menu ).

Trust me here it's like a double step and how the hell am I to use that rear dial when my eye is looking thru the finder with out poking my self in the eye!!

or am I just having withdrawals from the k7
We are talking about the same camera, right? This one?
http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/digitalslr/5D-Mark-II_back-view.jpg

I fail to see just how in the hell you'd poke yourself in the eye using the rear dial.

As for changing aperture, you normally change it when in Av mode or M mode. Then it's just a single dial you turn.

In Tv mode you're not changing the aperture directly.

In Program mode you don't change either, but can use the front dial to "shift" the program (which changes shutter speed and aperture to maintain the metered exposure).

I am not entirely sure what you're looking for here.
08-05-2009, 03:05 PM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
We are talking about the same camera, right? This one?
http://www.photoreview.com.au/reviews/digitalslr/5D-Mark-II_back-view.jpg

I fail to see just how in the hell you'd poke yourself in the eye using the rear dial.

As for changing aperture, you normally change it when in Av mode or M mode. Then it's just a single dial you turn.

In Tv mode you're not changing the aperture directly.

In Program mode you don't change either, but can use the front dial to "shift" the program (which changes shutter speed and aperture to maintain the metered exposure).

I am not entirely sure what you're looking for here.
First I am right handed but left eye dominant ( don't ask ), Eye poking is quite common for a guy like me.

2nd if you played with a k20d or k7 and used the hyper modes you'd understand but like I said it's part adapting to a different button layout and not having dedicated aperture and shutter dials that let me in any mode adjust either at will at any time and mode shift with out having to actually turn the dial to go into the mode ( IE just leave it in program and adjust aperture letting it adjust shutter, then if things start to move and I need a higher shutter speed just turn the shutter dial and let the camera adjust the aperture, just like that at any time)

It's a bit of being used to something for so long and now not having it.
08-05-2009, 03:19 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
Sure, but those guys weren't shooting rally cars, birds in flight, home interiors and so forth and so on.

Different times, different needs, different gear.

But yes, I do agree that too many people obsess over the gear and expect it to be a replacement for hard work and talent. That doesn't make the gear irrelevant. Unfortunately a lot of people tend to see things as black or white, and it's either "the gear doesn't matter at all" or "the gear makes the photo". Reality is a little more nuanced.
I never meant to say that gear was irrelevant. Obviously a camera with better low light performance would be chosen for someone who shoot primarily concerts. I bought my K200d because at the time it had the best feature set for my price range and shooting style. I did a lot of research on all of the "Gear" out there before making my decision.

As far as different times different gear. I think that you are correct. However the gear only makes it easier to get the shot. There were plenty of birds in flight, Automobile racing, and building interior photographs taken before the advent of auto-focus. And many of those images are quite good.

I'm just saying that I think that often times there is an overemphasis on the gear at the expense of honing ones own craft.

08-05-2009, 03:59 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by lurchlarson Quote

I'm just saying that I think that often times there is an overemphasis on the gear at the expense of honing ones own craft.
That's because:

pontificating on the interwebs is pretty much free

buying new gear is always easier than actually sitting down (or standing up) and doing the work.
08-05-2009, 05:39 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by Torphoto Quote
First I am right handed but left eye dominant ( don't ask ), Eye poking is quite common for a guy like me.

2nd if you played with a k20d or k7 and used the hyper modes you'd understand but like I said it's part adapting to a different button layout and not having dedicated aperture and shutter dials that let me in any mode adjust either at will at any time and mode shift with out having to actually turn the dial to go into the mode ( IE just leave it in program and adjust aperture letting it adjust shutter, then if things start to move and I need a higher shutter speed just turn the shutter dial and let the camera adjust the aperture, just like that at any time)

It's a bit of being used to something for so long and now not having it.
I actually owned a K20D for around 8 months, but to be honest I never really did see the "green button" or the TAv mode being exciting enough to warrant preferring Pentax over others. Then again, I pretty much live in Av or M mode unless I need P mode for general walk-around when I am not sure what to expect.

Not saying the Pentax special modes aren't worthwhile -- it'd be nice if other manufacturers had the same.
08-05-2009, 06:11 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
I actually owned a K20D for around 8 months, but to be honest I never really did see the "green button" or the TAv mode being exciting enough to warrant preferring Pentax over others. Then again, I pretty much live in Av or M mode unless I need P mode for general walk-around when I am not sure what to expect.

Not saying the Pentax special modes aren't worthwhile -- it'd be nice if other manufacturers had the same.
Well IF the playing field was level and one had to choose between 3 different models from 3 different companies and iq/performance etc were equal and this was the deal breaker, Pentax would win but since things are different and af/iq/hi iso performance differs those other factors win.

Would still be nice tho.
08-05-2009, 06:58 PM   #38
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For those Pentax users who are used to "green button", Hyper-Program mode, TAv mode which allows one to control both DOF and freezing motion at the same time means big if there are not there anymore..

I am not bashing any other brands, but if I have to uprade and switch to another brand, I would certainly think seriously about what I would give up in return.

08-05-2009, 07:03 PM   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by aleonx3 Quote
For those Pentax users who are used to "green button", Hyper-Program mode, TAv mode which allows one to control both DOF and freezing motion at the same time means big if there are not there anymore..

I am not bashing any other brands, but if I have to uprade and switch to another brand, I would certainly think seriously about what I would give up in return.
What I don't get though, is that you are dealing with three factors: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. There's nothing magical about them, and they work the same in all cameras -- determining your exposure. I can control DOF and freeze motion in program mode on any camera that allows for program shift. It's not like Pentax bypasses the laws of physics and enable you to do something other gear can't.
08-05-2009, 08:36 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
What I don't get though, is that you are dealing with three factors: shutter speed, aperture, and ISO. There's nothing magical about them, and they work the same in all cameras -- determining your exposure. I can control DOF and freeze motion in program mode on any camera that allows for program shift. It's not like Pentax bypasses the laws of physics and enable you to do something other gear can't.
True but the hyper modes just make it easier.
08-05-2009, 08:38 PM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by pingflood Quote
It's not like Pentax bypasses the laws of physics and enable you to do something other gear can't.
Heresy!

Obviously you haven't experienced any brand reality distortion fields (BRDFs ®). You need to hang out at DPR more...
08-05-2009, 08:40 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by ytterbium Quote
There is nothing like that in here. Canon, Nikon, Pentax.. rebates, are you laughing?
I am ... all the way to the bank. Pentax Canada gives a rebate of 150 dollars for every K20D sold at current prices, with any lens. This offer was announced a couple of months ago, and I think it expires end of September. I would have bought the K20 without the rebate anyway, but at today's prices, the rebate is sweeeeet.
08-05-2009, 08:48 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by nostatic Quote
Heresy!

Obviously you haven't experienced any brand reality distortion fields (BRDFs ®). You need to hang out at DPR more...
hahaha lol
08-05-2009, 09:09 PM   #44
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Pentax's Hyperprogram mode is the most refined of all camera modes. Combined with the green button, Pentax is the only camera maker that allows the user to switch between three modes instantly. It is an elegant control system. I also like how Pentax has TAV mode. Sure it is just manual mode with auto ISO, but it is useful. It acutually belongs with TV and AV as the third in the trio. SV is actually program mode with direct ISO control.

The only thing I do not like about Pentax's interface is manual mode. I find the direction I need to turn the e-dials to be counterintuitive to what the meter is telling me.
08-06-2009, 04:20 AM   #45
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I have to say that the green button makes manual mode useable for me. I am not an experienced photographer and being able to fiddle with settings and then jump back to what the camera suggests, just with the push of a button is amazing. I can't imagine even beginning to play around with manual mode without something like that. On the other hand, for those who have more experience, it probably just seems like a wasted button.
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